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"Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*
By:Leviathan
Date: 8/19/13 10:23 pm
In Response To: Re: Comics (Cody Miller)

: Because say, animation, can contain the entirety of a comic book. You could
: easily have 9 panels on screen, each moving in sequence, or not moving at
: all. Of course you can show 9 scenes at the same time in film and
: animation, it's just dumb to do so since the act of editing much more
: seamlessly and powerfully creates relationships between images, but if you
: want to have panels on the screen nothing stops you. That is why comics
: are obsolete: animation can do the same thing, PLUS SO MUCH MORE.

I have apparently done a poor job of describing how a comic can do things so differently. First, I don't rate mediums in a hierarchy - I'm not trying to say one medium is better than the other. I personally want to experience every form of art that I can and there's an infinite amount of ways art can be expressed (and many do not fit within your rigid definitions of this particular medium or that particular medium like I mentioned with the comics that contained animation, text, and music in my last post). I believe all these formats have value and their own particular uses to convey particular ideas and concepts. Certain messages can be more effective for certain people with a certain format.

I can prove what you're trying to dismiss by simply saying: I've read comics that have been just as powerful as the most powerful books I've read, films I've seen, or albums I've listened to. And I've experienced stories in impacting ways that I've never seen other mediums do. It's not that it's BETTER than other formats - it's that there is definitely unique experiences to be had in them, especially if the writer or artists knows how to take advantage of its particular strengths. Just because you haven't had the chance to experience these stories in these ways does not mean no one else has.

One simple way to describe how traditionally-formatted comics are different from animation and other mediums is: where as the panels contain art so is the page itself another piece of art that can align itself with its story or go against it. In the comic glimpsed below, the pages use the color palettes and panel shapes to tie themes together or highlight differences in moods and balances of delicate emotions. The eye gets to go back and forth. The readers decide how much they experience, and how many levels.

Because I can't post whole novels, another brief example of meaningful juxtaposition and giving the reader multiple flows to investigating the story.

: I cannot conceive of any story that would be best told as a comic book.
: Certainly not Watchmen.

The Watchmen, the graphic novel at least, is ABOUT comics and the flaws of classic golden age and silver age 'superheros', which had rarely been done before its release. And it uses the language of comics in brand new ways that you could study for months. So in my mind, a comic about comics that creates new ways of telling a comic would DEFINITELY be represented best as a comic. There's plenty of material to read about it if you're interested (and its included in a lot of science fiction and creative writing classes in various colleges as well).

To get to the fundamental basics of why the traditional comics format is unique and how powerful it can be, you should read Will Eisner's Guide to Graphic Storytelling and its sequels. They are mind openers.

: This is where film and animation blow away comics.

I completely disagree, but I'd just keep bringing up what I already said. Which I don't think is really transmitting to you well since you probably haven't read enough comics to understand all that they can be, or at least the right comics suited to the way you process art. As a film editior, it's probably very likely that film and animation usually does work stronger for you, because that's what the medium you work with all the time. But foreign mediums can bring foreign concepts and experiences, so I'd urge you not to dismiss them outright.

I've read comics that have made me cry, laugh, be motivated, inspired from. I've read comics that have given me hope, filled my brain up with a wealth of ideas, and done so in a the special way - because the format of comics can be whatever the writer or artist wants it to be. There is an infinitely-numbered amount of ways that the images and/or text can be juxtaposed to tell a story more effectively, even if that means switching to all-text or all art at times. A graphic novel that flows between sequential paneling and other formats is Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean's "Signal to Noise" which toys with the reader in how meaning can be derived from randomness (or not). It is another story that I could possibly see adapted into another medium because it would literally be impossible to.

If creativity can be made, if stories can be told, if meaning and emotion can be derived, then the medium/format is worthy. I believe dismissing it or placing it below other artforms is just limiting what you could be experiencing.


Messages In This Thread

Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Grizzlei8/14/13 7:17 pm
     Glad to heardavidfuchs8/14/13 7:23 pm
           Re: Glad to hearGrizzlei8/14/13 7:27 pm
                 Re: Glad to heardavidfuchs8/14/13 7:28 pm
                       That's high praise *GIF*Grizzlei8/14/13 7:34 pm
     Forgot to mention where to buy...Grizzlei8/14/13 8:14 pm
     Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Phoenix_92868/14/13 8:22 pm
           Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Grizzlei8/14/13 8:35 pm
                 Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Phoenix_92868/14/13 8:45 pm
                       Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*davidfuchs8/14/13 9:12 pm
                             Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Phoenix_92868/14/13 9:34 pm
                                   Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*davidfuchs8/14/13 10:00 pm
                                         Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Phoenix_92868/14/13 10:48 pm
                                               Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Grizzlei8/14/13 10:57 pm
                                                     Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*TDSpiral8/14/13 11:03 pm
                                                     Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Leviathan8/14/13 11:05 pm
                                                           Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*TDSpiral8/14/13 11:11 pm
                                                                 Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Leviathan8/14/13 11:27 pm
                                                                       Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect)8/15/13 7:28 am
                                                                             The later seems likely now. *NM*Leviathan8/15/13 8:10 pm
                                                                             Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Hyokin8/18/13 2:38 am
                                                                                   Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*ZackDark8/18/13 12:10 pm
                                                                                   Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*davidfuchs8/18/13 12:18 pm
                                                                       Schrödinger's Spartan *NM*scarab8/15/13 12:17 pm
                                                           Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Grizzlei8/14/13 11:21 pm
                                                                 Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Quirel8/14/13 11:27 pm
                                                                       Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Grizzlei8/14/13 11:42 pm
                                                                 Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Leviathan8/14/13 11:40 pm
                                                                       Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Grizzlei8/14/13 11:49 pm
                                                                             Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Leviathan8/15/13 12:10 am
                                                                                   Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Grizzlei8/15/13 12:15 am
                                                                                         He's BEHIND you! *NM*scarab8/15/13 12:21 pm
                                                                       You are not alone.Quirel8/15/13 12:21 am
                                                                             RC Masterscarab8/15/13 12:23 pm
                                                                                   Hey...RC Master8/16/13 9:10 am
                                                                                         Tru datscarab8/16/13 2:07 pm
                                                                                               Re: Tru datLeviathan8/16/13 3:52 pm
                                                                                                     Re: Tru datscarab8/16/13 4:20 pm
                                                                                                           Re: Tru datRC Master8/17/13 2:16 am
                                                                                                                 343i, make it happen: pleasescarab8/17/13 7:23 am
                                                                                               Re: Tru datRC Master8/17/13 2:20 am
                                                                                                     Halo & Kinectscarab8/17/13 7:49 am
                                                                                                           Re: Halo & KinectCody Miller8/18/13 2:00 am
                                                                                                                 Re: Halo & Kinectscarab8/18/13 5:58 am
                                                                                                                       Re: Halo & KinectLouis Wu8/18/13 10:59 am
                                                                                                                             Re: Halo & Kinectscarab8/18/13 2:26 pm
                                                                                                                                   Re: Halo & Kinectscarab8/18/13 2:29 pm
                                                                                                                                         Re: Halo & Kinectscarab8/18/13 2:39 pm
                                                                                                                                               Re: Halo & Kinectthebruce08/19/13 11:26 am
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Halo & Kinectscarab8/19/13 3:58 pm
                                                                                                                                                     Project Spark?MacGyver108/19/13 4:27 pm
                                                                                                                                                     Natural Selection 2? *NM*ZackDark8/19/13 8:44 pm
                                                                                                                                   Re: Halo & KinectLouis Wu8/18/13 3:12 pm
                                                                                                                                         Re: Halo & KinectCody Miller8/18/13 4:29 pm
                                                                                                                                               Re: Halo & KinectGravemind8/18/13 4:41 pm
                                                                                                                                                     Tried it. Sniper dude got in the Pelican instead.Gravemind8/19/13 12:35 am
                                                                                                                                                           Now if only that game had voice commands ;-) *NM*scarab8/19/13 2:35 am
                                                                                                                                               Re: Halo & KinectLouis Wu8/18/13 11:02 pm
                                                                       Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect)8/15/13 8:07 am
                                                                             Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Leviathan8/15/13 8:11 pm
                                                                             Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Flynn J Taggart8/16/13 1:14 am
                                                                                   Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect)8/16/13 11:43 am
                                                                                         Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Flynn J Taggart8/16/13 3:46 pm
                                                                                               Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect)8/16/13 5:23 pm
                                                                                                     Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*The Lionheart8/19/13 7:19 pm
                                                                       Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Kermit8/16/13 12:41 pm
                 Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Document8/27/13 4:57 am
                       Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Grizzlei8/27/13 5:50 am
                             Small thingNikko B2018/27/13 6:29 am
                             Re^3: Great Schism at ReachDocument8/27/13 10:56 am
     Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*serpx8/14/13 8:36 pm
           Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*serpx8/14/13 10:46 pm
                 Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Grizzlei8/14/13 10:52 pm
     I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/14/13 11:25 pm
           Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Grizzlei8/14/13 11:37 pm
                 Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...TDSpiral8/14/13 11:52 pm
                       Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Grizzlei8/14/13 11:56 pm
                             Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/15/13 12:17 am
                                   Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Grizzlei8/15/13 12:23 am
                                         Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/15/13 12:53 am
                                               Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Grizzlei8/15/13 12:58 am
                                                     Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/15/13 1:12 am
                                                           Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Grizzlei8/15/13 1:31 am
                 Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/14/13 11:58 pm
                       Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Grizzlei8/15/13 12:09 am
                             Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/15/13 12:56 am
                                   Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...breitzen8/15/13 2:29 pm
                                         I like HBO. You guys are nice.Leviathan8/15/13 7:58 pm
                                               Re: I like HBO. You guys are nice.breitzen8/16/13 11:22 am
                                   Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Kermit8/16/13 1:03 pm
                                   Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Cody Miller8/18/13 2:25 am
                       Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Archilen8/15/13 4:08 am
                             Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/15/13 8:13 pm
           Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Cody Miller8/18/13 2:12 am
                 Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/19/13 2:15 pm
           Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Cody Miller8/18/13 2:21 am
                 Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/19/13 2:14 pm
                       Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Cody Miller8/19/13 3:50 pm
                             ComicsLeviathan8/19/13 5:12 pm
                                   Re: ComicsCody Miller8/19/13 6:22 pm
                                         Re: ComicsZackDark8/19/13 8:53 pm
                                         "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Leviathan8/19/13 10:23 pm
                                               Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Cody Miller8/20/13 5:08 pm
                                                     Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Leviathan8/20/13 5:53 pm
                                                           Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Louis Wu8/20/13 6:47 pm
                                                           Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Cody Miller8/20/13 11:26 pm
                                                                 Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Kermit8/21/13 2:43 pm
                                                                       Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Cody Miller8/21/13 8:45 pm
                                                                             Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Kermit8/22/13 12:52 am
                                                                                   Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Cody Miller8/22/13 1:48 am
                                                                                         Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Kermit8/22/13 2:10 am
                                                                 Re: "Singing Images Held In Time" *Large IMGs*Leviathan8/21/13 3:50 pm
                                                                       I'm really, really sorry for this...ZackDark8/21/13 7:55 pm
                                                                             Nope.Louis Wu8/21/13 8:03 pm
                                                                                   Re: Nope.ZackDark8/21/13 8:19 pm
                                                                                         On English f-upsZackDark8/22/13 10:52 am
                                                                                               Re: On English f-upsKermit8/22/13 11:35 am
                                                                             Re: I'm really, really sorry for this...Kermit8/21/13 8:06 pm
                                                                                   Re: I'm really, really sorry for this...thebruce08/22/13 9:43 am
                             Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Quirel8/19/13 11:00 pm
                             Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...uberfoop8/21/13 1:51 am
                             Ah, good old Cody "Zero sum" Miller *NM*General Vagueness8/24/13 10:06 pm
                       Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Postmortem8/19/13 10:17 pm
                             Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/19/13 10:33 pm
                                   Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Postmortem8/20/13 12:01 am
                                         Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/20/13 12:33 am
                                               ComicsRagashingo8/20/13 8:37 am
                                                     Re: ComicsLeviathan8/20/13 5:07 pm
                                                           Re: Comicsthebruce08/21/13 9:58 am
                                               Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Postmortem8/20/13 1:12 pm
                                                     Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Leviathan8/20/13 5:36 pm
                                                           Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Postmortem8/20/13 11:24 pm
                                         Re: I have a hard time disconnecting my brain...Quirel8/21/13 9:17 pm
     Re: Initiation #1 Review *Minor SP*Quirel8/15/13 2:43 am
           *GIF*Grizzlei8/15/13 8:42 pm
     Initiation previews?Document8/27/13 5:26 am
           Re: Initiation previews?Grizzlei8/27/13 6:01 am
                 Re: Initiation vs FoRDocument8/27/13 11:32 am

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