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Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...
By:thebruce0
Date: 5/5/15 3:31 pm
In Response To: Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... (General Vagueness)

: Yes, much of this is my opinion. I don't think it's up to opinion what the
: story is about unless you subscribe to a particularly strong strain of
: "the author is dead", in which case you can say it's about
: anything.

Understood, but this isn't about that. This is looking at what we know (entirely), and balancing between what we've been told, what we've been teased, and if we wish, analyzing storytelling tropes and methods and tricks to form speculation about possibilities. That's not attempting to project your own meaning on content that may or may not differ from the original author's, that's just attempting to predict what may come about in future plot...

: Also, I've been meaning to mention, Cortana said they might pair him with
: another AI similar to her-- that could easily happen and she could take up
: that role, and there could be a whole exploration of that, and that could
: fill the necessary holes, mainly gameplay and in-mission dialogue. It
: would not fill the hole of Cortana as a character-- or at least it
: shouldn't, that would be another misstep-- because nothing should.

Agreed

: Cortana coming back would not be "cooler" than the alternative.

I said: "if you only take in the game's story, you may more easily swallow the plot 'trick', so that when established extended knowledge (speaking in general here) is incorporated into the game it can be that much 'cooler' (if done well)."
This was talking about a storytelling trick, not stating that "it would be cooler" to have Cortana back. But that the effort of writing wherein you eventually 'reveal' a connection to something that was in existence, pre-planned, for some time - if done well (unexpected?) - is to make that a memoral (cool) moment for the reader. Sure, it may fall flat, it may fail, but the trick is to attempt to provide a better experience. For some, discovering (this is a hypothetical) that the plot mechanism to have Cortana return has been around in the EU which they didn't know about until now could be cool. But not to everyone. Predictable to others. And disappointing to yet others. Clearly. :P

: Forerunner space magic is unpalatable because it's a plot device, it exists
: to make other parts of the story function.

YMMV

: I meant plot stuff before she died.

Ahh, see I'm not restricting to plot stuff before a certain narrative time. That's the whole point of teasers. To make you wonder what's going on, how it's happening, who's involved... to speculate about future plot. And to me, Chief carrying the chip screams journey to either A) Save Cortana or B) eventually find a way to let her go.

: Yes, she does, because some things you can't fight.

Says who? This is sci-fi, there's an established Smart AI tech, and there's Cortana's special nature. 343 knows. We don't. There's no precedent that says Cortana's demise cannot be fought. A standard Smart AI? Yeah, that's documented clearly. The outstanding hints that Cortana is special, to me, implies that there's still much to happen with her arc.

:: Does not seem right that she would gone for good as of Halo 4 of 6.
: Why does it not seem right?

As I said, John & Cortana are a duo. It doesn't seem right that half the duo is killed off 2/3 of the way through the story. All of this is my speculation based on my observation of plot points and the way they're telling the story. Sure, I could be wrong. But I really do not think that I am :) (And I haven't yet seen a convincing argument otherwise either)

:: The center has always been John and Cortana though.
: You admitted elsewhere it hasn't always been about that, so which is it?

eh? I don't remember ever saying that they were not the center of the numbered Halo series.

: If it wasn't about her dying then what was it about?

...it was about her apparent dying effectively in John's arms. This is different than dying completely out of the Halo franchise.

: Why are you using smilies as punctuation? It's getting really, really
: annoying.

:P

: They're not going to do that any time soon-- not because of the story, but
: because of money. They know people like you will swallow whatever plot
: device they cook up so they can get more of the characters they like.

People like me are a little less strict about "acceptability"; for me, personally because I like to enjoy things rather than be super critical as if my own opinion is the only way that things should be done. As I said, I can accept either outcome, and I'll likely enjoy it. I'd prefer, and I expect, Cortana to return, but I'm nowhere near as, I dunno, offended at the prospect of her dying as some people here are of her returning...
My suspension of disbelief can stretch a little farther than some people. Is that a problem? I like to enjoy things I want to enjoy :)

: No? Cortana talked about how rampancy ends an AI's life, and she talked about
: her life and experiences in the past tense in the last cutscene. There's
: also "show, don't tell"-- you shouldn't have to have the
: characters state what's happening. We saw her fade away and the ship she
: was in fall to pieces, and there was nothing-- shown or told-- that
: contradicted that.

Again, this was dialogue between characters, not a narration explicitly stating Cortana is no more, never to return. There's a difference in perception of the scene's events based on how it's presented. To me, this smack of a one-sided view of events, where there still remain openings for more to happen.
That's what I see. That's what I've come to expect. Do you have a need to convince me somehow that Cortana will never return to the Halo franchise?

: Halo doesn't use an omniscient narrator, and that doesn't work with a lot of
: stories.

Most novels do. You know, typical narration. Not italicized character thoughts, but statements. Usually explicitly stated narration is not a trick or play on words. And you're right, Halo doesn't have that; and that's the point. Save for animated shorts like recent Terminals (which for the most part do have elements of narration), aside from some scene captions, everything is our "watching" of events unfold, which means it's all necessarily limited to perspectives and perception of characters. That's how I view events. You don't have to view it that way, but I do. Because that, to me, helps me enjoy it much more, leaving doors open for imagination and speculation.

I doin't want to believe that Cortana is dead. I wno't be devastated if she is, but much more of me is convinced, for many reasons, that she will return. If not, then I really hope that John's journey to accepting this fact is done so well that I associate with it and experience it myself.
That, to me, is good storytelling.


Messages In This Thread

Halo 5: Guardians cover artGrizzlei4/28/15 4:46 pm
     Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artMacGyver104/28/15 5:15 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artArteenEsben4/28/15 7:28 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artcar154/28/15 7:37 pm
                 Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artserpx4/28/15 9:10 pm
                 Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artGravemind4/28/15 9:15 pm
     Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artgamerguy20024/28/15 6:27 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artzofinda4/28/15 6:45 pm
                 Overhypes *NM*ZackDark4/28/15 7:02 pm
                       Re: Overhypeszofinda4/28/15 7:19 pm
                             Woah, woah, woah, hold yer horsesZackDark4/28/15 8:29 pm
                                   #Better Be Buck *NM*Bounce-A-Gon4/28/15 8:44 pm
                                   Re: Woah, woah, woah, hold yer horsesserpx4/28/15 9:11 pm
                                         Hyperion *NM*ZackDark4/28/15 10:22 pm
                                         How will they fit all that onto the box I wonder. *NM*Apollo4/28/15 11:51 pm
                                               Re: How will they fit all that onto the box I wondGeneral Vagueness4/29/15 1:24 am
                                               I think this is the actual box art.Gravemind4/29/15 1:59 am
                                   You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...munky-0584/29/15 3:22 am
                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...hunt3r4/29/15 5:04 am
                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/29/15 10:43 am
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/29/15 1:38 pm
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/29/15 2:08 pm
                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/30/15 3:26 pm
                                                                       +1 *NM*Quirel4/30/15 4:34 pm
                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/30/15 8:17 pm
                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/30/15 10:11 pm
                                                                                   +1 again. *NM*Quirel5/1/15 3:52 pm
                                                                                   Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/4/15 11:12 am
                                                                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/4/15 1:26 pm
                                                                                               Kill this thread. kill it dead. i am tired of it *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/4/15 3:02 pm
                                                                                                     Re: How wude! *NM*thebruce05/4/15 3:21 pm
                                                                                                     Re: Yeah. Seriously. *NM*Hyokin5/5/15 2:58 pm
                                                                                                     I want to see how far this goes.Quirel5/5/15 3:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: I want to see how far this goes.thebruce05/5/15 3:46 pm
                                                                                                                 Re: I want to see how far this goes.Hyokin5/5/15 4:47 pm
                                                                                                           Re: I want to see how far this goes.General Vagueness5/6/15 2:24 am
                                                                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/4/15 3:20 pm
                                                                                                     rolls eyes and sighs heavily *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/4/15 3:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: Ok. *NM*thebruce05/4/15 4:52 pm
                                                                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/5/15 2:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/5/15 3:31 pm
                                                                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/6/15 2:19 am
                                                                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/6/15 10:56 am
                                                                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/6/15 11:52 am
                                                                                                                                   Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/6/15 2:10 pm
                                                                                                                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/7/15 8:46 pm
                                                                                                                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/8/15 9:59 am
                                                                                                                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/8/15 12:13 pm
                                                                                                                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/8/15 12:42 pm
                                                                                                                                                                 WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIE *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/8/15 9:42 pm
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIEHyokin5/8/15 9:57 pm
                                                                                                                                                                       Perpetual. Motion.Quirel5/9/15 4:30 am
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIEthebruce05/11/15 2:33 pm
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/9/15 1:52 pm
                                                     On death (GoT spoils)Cody Miller4/29/15 11:02 pm
                                                           Re: On death (GoT spoils)thebruce04/30/15 9:21 am
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Quirel4/30/15 5:14 pm
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/30/15 8:19 pm
                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Quirel5/1/15 3:31 pm
                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... *IMGs*thebruce05/4/15 11:33 am
                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... *IMGs*Grizzlei5/4/15 12:15 pm
                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Cody Miller4/29/15 10:59 pm
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...hunt3r4/30/15 3:09 am
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...MacGyver104/30/15 2:56 pm
                                         an aging jaded fanbase *NM*Bounce-A-Gon4/29/15 5:16 am
                                               Re: an aging jaded fanbasemunky-0584/29/15 6:50 am
                                                     Re: ehhhhhhhhhhRevenant19884/29/15 10:09 am
                                                           Re: ehhhhhhhhhhCody Miller4/30/15 2:42 pm
                                                                 Re: ehhhhhhhhhhMacGyver104/30/15 3:00 pm
                                                                       Re: ehhhhhhhhhhGeneral Vagueness4/30/15 3:32 pm
                                                           Re: ehhhhhhhhhhQuirel4/30/15 4:30 pm
                                         Wow.Quirel4/30/15 3:55 pm
                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...serpx5/4/15 8:32 pm

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