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Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...
By:thebruce0
Date: 5/4/15 3:20 pm
In Response To: Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... (General Vagueness)

: Precedent for unexpected things happening doesn't mean anything, unexpected
: things happen in any story with a good length to it.
: Seven years was never a hard limit, it was the rough point at which an AI
: becomes unstable-- and Cortana was very unstable, and even without the
: machinery she was in being destroyed, she was on her way out.

And to me, the story surrounding these two involves Cortana, as a special AI, dealing with the 'expected', and how the 'unpexpected' may change things for her. Point being that even if things happen as expected, all it takes is something unexpected to throw everything out the window. And with Cortana, that's certainly a possibility. I see the Halo story leaning towards that, and not that she's a "typical Smart AI" that suffers under the exact same nature of existence as others.

: You mean "I told you so"?

Umm... yes. Even though I "told to you", I meant "told you so" :P #slowdownbrain

: There's no "I told you so"
: here, I'm not saying it definitely won't happen, I'm saying it shouldn't
: happen and it doesn't make sense for it to happen-- it could still happen,
: because the next games aren't out yet and I don't really trust 343i to not
: contradict things, even things they came up with.

Ok good then, I disagree that it shouldn't happen. I agree that it can go either way. I believe that it will go the way of Cortana's return (as I've always said). And I wouldn't mind that happening, not one bit. So we can leave it that difference of opinions then, yeah? :)

: I've said a bunch of times, it's not that there's no way, there is always a
: way, the point is there is no way that follows naturally from the story.

In your opinion :)

: What possibilities were left open? There were no possibilities mentioned, not
: in Halo 4, not in the cutscenes, not in the in-mission dialogue, not in
: the audio logs, not in the terminals, not in any of the previous games. If
: you mean something from the books, that would be really bad, because you
: shouldn't have to read the books to see something as not being arbitrary
: and new, and they stated that weren't going to require you to read the
: books to understand the games' stories (of course, they already went back
: on that a bit with the Didact).

I disagree that just because it's not in the game it can't happen in the game. On the contrary, if you only take in the game's story, you may more easily swallow the plot 'trick', so that when established extended knowledge (speaking in general here) is incorporated into the game it can be that much 'cooler' (if done well). The very nature of the Smart AI leaves open unknown possibilities about how an AI might possibly continue to exist beyond the 'expected norm'. For one, Cortana being a unique entity; Forerunner technological 'space magic' influence (as unpalettable as that is to some people); satellite narratives implying more complexity than we can grasp (eg ILB); plus, IMO, storytelling mechanics and styles that fit this dynamic to a T; etc.

: What about my reasoning for why it's bad (because it's a cheap way out)?

Because it's your opinion that it's bad, and I don't really want to debate opinions.

: What plot setups were there?

Chief holding the chip. We don't know why, or what it actually contains if anything.
Cortana's very 'special' nature. What that means for a Smart AI, if anything.
Comments about finding Halsey to seek a solution to this growing rampancy at 7 years.
The fact that Cortana's essentially the most powerful human AI; loves John; seems to be striving to be more human; yet still succumbs to that 7 year soft limit? She sacrificed herself before that question could be answered. Does not seem right that she would gone for good as of Halo 4 of 6.
etc

: What does being a primary character have to do with anything? A lot of the
: best stories kill primary characters.

Yes, as I previously exampled. I never said that wasn't true.

: They said a while back this isn't so much a trilogy any more as a continuing
: thing, and even if they didn't, that says nothing about a character being
: around or not.

Regardless of whether 4,5,6 is another trilogy, it's pretty clear they will be going to 6. That's still 2 games, trilogy or not. And Halo 1-4 have always so far centered around John and Cortana, with occasional dabbling with other characters. The center has always been John and Cortana though.

: It was in Halo 4, and largely in Halo 3, it wasn't always, and it doesn't
: have to always continue to be the center.

Sure it doesn't have to. But I think it will, and you'd rather it not. Ok :)

: No, it's about her dying.

To you, it seems.

: She goes through a whole big end-of-life thing, all
: hope is lost, the Chief does everything he can, he fights it until the
: end, and in the end there's nothing he can do, and it's over.

For now :P

: Cortana knows it's over

Apparently, as witnessed by John :P

: he knows it's over.

To the best of his knowledge :P

: It's sad and it kills off a character that's pretty likable and liked by other
: characters and important to the franchise

Which is why she'll return :P

: but that doesn't mean that death should be overwritten.

Of course not :P

: This isn't a soap opera, this isn't a comic book, this isn't gameplay, death is
: not supposed to be cheap.

It doesn't have to be. But it's also sci fi, dealing with a level of technology has philosophical ties to what it means to be human, meaning the door has not yet shut on this aspect of the narrative :P

: What would you take as a definitive death, then?
: You talk about there
: possibly being copies, even ones Cortana doesn't know about, how could
: they ever prove to you that she's completely gone?

The end of Halo 6, Master Chief narratives; no more Chief or Cortana stories. :P

: No, there isn't. This is not my opinion,

In your opinion :P

: this is the story saying-- not in so many words, most of the time, but still
: saying quite clearly-- "Cortana is about to die", and then saying "Cortana is
: dead".

No, there was character dialogue based around their observation and perception of events that were being presented to us in a game cinematic. :P

To put it another way, watching two characters talking doesn't hold the same meta narrative weight as a detached narrator describing events to us concerning two characters and confirming for example, "And then Cortana was no more, never to be seen or heard from again."

: She went rampant and the hardware she was in was destroyed.

Apparently :P

: No one expressed any hope of any alternate possibility in that story.

I dunno about you but I can't read the chief's mind, and so far I see a journey to solve or answer something as teased for Halo 5. :P

: If you want to bring in something from another story, you can do that, but it
: would be a stupid move for 343i to do that because to the vast majority of
: the audience it'll look like they're pulling it out of their ass.

Or, you know, encourage them to go and check out other stories and get more involved in this very detailed, highly ranged and flexible franchise with so many stories and characters to enjoy in a very rich sci fi universe. :P

: I don't, I specifically said it can work sometimes.

Great, so you'd like it to work one way, I foresee it working another. Let's leave it at that :)

: So why cheapen that and cut it short by having her come back?

Because it wouldn't be cheapening it to me - it would be exploring another aspect of life and love and humanity, answering unanswered questions, continuing adventures of a very powerful and unique hero duo, exploring philosophical issues I find extremely intriguing :)

Ahhh opinions, we all got'em!


Messages In This Thread

Halo 5: Guardians cover artGrizzlei4/28/15 4:46 pm
     Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artMacGyver104/28/15 5:15 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artArteenEsben4/28/15 7:28 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artcar154/28/15 7:37 pm
                 Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artserpx4/28/15 9:10 pm
                 Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artGravemind4/28/15 9:15 pm
     Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artgamerguy20024/28/15 6:27 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artzofinda4/28/15 6:45 pm
                 Overhypes *NM*ZackDark4/28/15 7:02 pm
                       Re: Overhypeszofinda4/28/15 7:19 pm
                             Woah, woah, woah, hold yer horsesZackDark4/28/15 8:29 pm
                                   #Better Be Buck *NM*Bounce-A-Gon4/28/15 8:44 pm
                                   Re: Woah, woah, woah, hold yer horsesserpx4/28/15 9:11 pm
                                         Hyperion *NM*ZackDark4/28/15 10:22 pm
                                         How will they fit all that onto the box I wonder. *NM*Apollo4/28/15 11:51 pm
                                               Re: How will they fit all that onto the box I wondGeneral Vagueness4/29/15 1:24 am
                                               I think this is the actual box art.Gravemind4/29/15 1:59 am
                                   You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...munky-0584/29/15 3:22 am
                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...hunt3r4/29/15 5:04 am
                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/29/15 10:43 am
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/29/15 1:38 pm
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/29/15 2:08 pm
                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/30/15 3:26 pm
                                                                       +1 *NM*Quirel4/30/15 4:34 pm
                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/30/15 8:17 pm
                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/30/15 10:11 pm
                                                                                   +1 again. *NM*Quirel5/1/15 3:52 pm
                                                                                   Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/4/15 11:12 am
                                                                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/4/15 1:26 pm
                                                                                               Kill this thread. kill it dead. i am tired of it *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/4/15 3:02 pm
                                                                                                     Re: How wude! *NM*thebruce05/4/15 3:21 pm
                                                                                                     Re: Yeah. Seriously. *NM*Hyokin5/5/15 2:58 pm
                                                                                                     I want to see how far this goes.Quirel5/5/15 3:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: I want to see how far this goes.thebruce05/5/15 3:46 pm
                                                                                                                 Re: I want to see how far this goes.Hyokin5/5/15 4:47 pm
                                                                                                           Re: I want to see how far this goes.General Vagueness5/6/15 2:24 am
                                                                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/4/15 3:20 pm
                                                                                                     rolls eyes and sighs heavily *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/4/15 3:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: Ok. *NM*thebruce05/4/15 4:52 pm
                                                                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/5/15 2:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/5/15 3:31 pm
                                                                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/6/15 2:19 am
                                                                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/6/15 10:56 am
                                                                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/6/15 11:52 am
                                                                                                                                   Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/6/15 2:10 pm
                                                                                                                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/7/15 8:46 pm
                                                                                                                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/8/15 9:59 am
                                                                                                                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/8/15 12:13 pm
                                                                                                                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/8/15 12:42 pm
                                                                                                                                                                 WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIE *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/8/15 9:42 pm
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIEHyokin5/8/15 9:57 pm
                                                                                                                                                                       Perpetual. Motion.Quirel5/9/15 4:30 am
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIEthebruce05/11/15 2:33 pm
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/9/15 1:52 pm
                                                     On death (GoT spoils)Cody Miller4/29/15 11:02 pm
                                                           Re: On death (GoT spoils)thebruce04/30/15 9:21 am
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Quirel4/30/15 5:14 pm
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/30/15 8:19 pm
                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Quirel5/1/15 3:31 pm
                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... *IMGs*thebruce05/4/15 11:33 am
                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... *IMGs*Grizzlei5/4/15 12:15 pm
                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Cody Miller4/29/15 10:59 pm
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...hunt3r4/30/15 3:09 am
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...MacGyver104/30/15 2:56 pm
                                         an aging jaded fanbase *NM*Bounce-A-Gon4/29/15 5:16 am
                                               Re: an aging jaded fanbasemunky-0584/29/15 6:50 am
                                                     Re: ehhhhhhhhhhRevenant19884/29/15 10:09 am
                                                           Re: ehhhhhhhhhhCody Miller4/30/15 2:42 pm
                                                                 Re: ehhhhhhhhhhMacGyver104/30/15 3:00 pm
                                                                       Re: ehhhhhhhhhhGeneral Vagueness4/30/15 3:32 pm
                                                           Re: ehhhhhhhhhhQuirel4/30/15 4:30 pm
                                         Wow.Quirel4/30/15 3:55 pm
                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...serpx5/4/15 8:32 pm

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