HBOHBO Forum
glyphstrip  
Halo.bungie.org
glyphstrip
Frequently Asked Forum Questions
 Search the HBO News Archives

Any All Exact 
Search the Halo Updates DBs

BWU Halo Halo2 
Search Older Posts on This Forum:
Posts on Current Forum | Archived Posts

View Thread Reply Return to Index Set Prefs Previous Next
Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...
By:General Vagueness
Date: 5/4/15 1:26 pm
In Response To: Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... (thebruce0)

: Cortana is unique among Smart AIs. Cheap way out? YMMV. She already lasted
: more than 7 years. Precedent (for the unexpected).

Precedent for unexpected things happening doesn't mean anything, unexpected things happen in any story with a good length to it.
Seven years was never a hard limit, it was the rough point at which an AI becomes unstable-- and Cortana was very unstable, and even without the machinery she was in being destroyed, she was on her way out.

: Well, I reserve the right to say "told to you" when she shows up
: again because you fell pray to storytelling tricks :P

You mean "I told you so"? There's no "I told you so" here, I'm not saying it definitely won't happen, I'm saying it shouldn't happen and it doesn't make sense for it to happen-- it could still happen, because the next games aren't out yet and I don't really trust 343i to not contradict things, even things they came up with.

: I do not agree with your assessment that there is absolutely no way she
: could objectively exist beyond the scene we saw with her and John.

I've said a bunch of times, it's not that there's no way, there is always a way, the point is there is no way that follows naturally from the story.

: If she does and it could only be in a way you'd despise, well I can't argue with
: that, and I'm not trying to. I'm just saying that it is feasible,
: considering how much precedent has been set, and making use of existing
: plot points that leave possibilities open. (regardless of how 'bad' you
: may consider the storytelling at that point)

What possibilities were left open? There were no possibilities mentioned, not in Halo 4, not in the cutscenes, not in the in-mission dialogue, not in the audio logs, not in the terminals, not in any of the previous games. If you mean something from the books, that would be really bad, because you shouldn't have to read the books to see something as not being arbitrary and new, and they stated that weren't going to require you to read the books to understand the games' stories (of course, they already went back on that a bit with the Didact).

: "it's bad" - subjective.

What about my reasoning for why it's bad (because it's a cheap way out)?

: I'm not saying you're wrong in your opinion that she shouldn't come back.
: I can understand why you'd like it to be that way. I'm simply saying that there
: is a clear possibility and setup for it to happen, for mulitple reasons; from
: plot setups to the simple fact that she is a primary character and the story is
: based on the relationship between the two primary characters; and there are
: still 2 games to come in this particular arc. I would be completely shocked if she
: did not re-appear, 'alive' in some manner.

What plot setups were there?
What does being a primary character have to do with anything? A lot of the best stories kill primary characters.
They said a while back this isn't so much a trilogy any more as a continuing thing, and even if they didn't, that says nothing about a character being around or not.

: Again, subjective. I don't want to argue opinion.
: This concept is not unique. Yes, it could go either way, but I firmly believe
: that this is all set up for her return in some way, because the center of
: the Chief's arc is he and Cortana.

It was in Halo 4, and largely in Halo 3, it wasn't always, and it doesn't have to always continue to be the center.

: I agree, the story was about her death, and to the characters the apparent
: finality of her ended state.

No, it's about her dying. She goes through a whole big end-of-life thing, all hope is lost, the Chief does everything he can, he fights it until the end, and in the end there's nothing he can do, and it's over. Cortana knows it's over, he knows it's over. It's sad and it kills off a character that's pretty likable and liked by other characters and important to the franchise, but that doesn't mean that death should be overwritten. This isn't a soap opera, this isn't a comic book, this isn't gameplay, death is not supposed to be cheap.

: But as a storytelling mechanism, I don't see this anywhere near the definitive
: "Here is the good guy's body; he's not breathing; he is D.E.D. dead. And there
: is no (plot point) way that his death could be mistaken, or could be revived
: from being dead."

What would you take as a definitive death, then? You talk about there possibly being copies, even ones Cortana doesn't know about, how could they ever prove to you that she's completely gone?

: From a storytelling perspective, there is plenty room for Cortana to
: feasibly return in some manner.

No, there isn't. This is not my opinion, this is the story saying-- not in so many words, most of the time, but still saying quite clearly-- "Cortana is about to die", and then saying "Cortana is dead". She went rampant and the hardware she was in was destroyed. No one expressed any hope of any alternate possibility in that story. If you want to bring in something from another story, you can do that, but it would be a stupid move for 343i to do that because to the vast majority of the audience it'll look like they're pulling it out of their ass.

: Again, if you want to label any story through history that has relied on
: 'tricking' the audience as Bad, then there's nothing else I can say.

I don't, I specifically said it can work sometimes.

: I believe that it's a setup, for the Chief's sake - he now believes she is
: 100% completely gone, and has to deal with it, work through it. That's his
: journey. He's holding on to her.

So why cheapen that and cut it short by having her come back?


Messages In This Thread

Halo 5: Guardians cover artGrizzlei4/28/15 4:46 pm
     Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artMacGyver104/28/15 5:15 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artArteenEsben4/28/15 7:28 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artcar154/28/15 7:37 pm
                 Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artserpx4/28/15 9:10 pm
                 Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artGravemind4/28/15 9:15 pm
     Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artgamerguy20024/28/15 6:27 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artzofinda4/28/15 6:45 pm
                 Overhypes *NM*ZackDark4/28/15 7:02 pm
                       Re: Overhypeszofinda4/28/15 7:19 pm
                             Woah, woah, woah, hold yer horsesZackDark4/28/15 8:29 pm
                                   #Better Be Buck *NM*Bounce-A-Gon4/28/15 8:44 pm
                                   Re: Woah, woah, woah, hold yer horsesserpx4/28/15 9:11 pm
                                         Hyperion *NM*ZackDark4/28/15 10:22 pm
                                         How will they fit all that onto the box I wonder. *NM*Apollo4/28/15 11:51 pm
                                               Re: How will they fit all that onto the box I wondGeneral Vagueness4/29/15 1:24 am
                                               I think this is the actual box art.Gravemind4/29/15 1:59 am
                                   You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...munky-0584/29/15 3:22 am
                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...hunt3r4/29/15 5:04 am
                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/29/15 10:43 am
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/29/15 1:38 pm
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/29/15 2:08 pm
                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/30/15 3:26 pm
                                                                       +1 *NM*Quirel4/30/15 4:34 pm
                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/30/15 8:17 pm
                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/30/15 10:11 pm
                                                                                   +1 again. *NM*Quirel5/1/15 3:52 pm
                                                                                   Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/4/15 11:12 am
                                                                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/4/15 1:26 pm
                                                                                               Kill this thread. kill it dead. i am tired of it *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/4/15 3:02 pm
                                                                                                     Re: How wude! *NM*thebruce05/4/15 3:21 pm
                                                                                                     Re: Yeah. Seriously. *NM*Hyokin5/5/15 2:58 pm
                                                                                                     I want to see how far this goes.Quirel5/5/15 3:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: I want to see how far this goes.thebruce05/5/15 3:46 pm
                                                                                                                 Re: I want to see how far this goes.Hyokin5/5/15 4:47 pm
                                                                                                           Re: I want to see how far this goes.General Vagueness5/6/15 2:24 am
                                                                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/4/15 3:20 pm
                                                                                                     rolls eyes and sighs heavily *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/4/15 3:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: Ok. *NM*thebruce05/4/15 4:52 pm
                                                                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/5/15 2:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/5/15 3:31 pm
                                                                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/6/15 2:19 am
                                                                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/6/15 10:56 am
                                                                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/6/15 11:52 am
                                                                                                                                   Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/6/15 2:10 pm
                                                                                                                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/7/15 8:46 pm
                                                                                                                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/8/15 9:59 am
                                                                                                                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/8/15 12:13 pm
                                                                                                                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/8/15 12:42 pm
                                                                                                                                                                 WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIE *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/8/15 9:42 pm
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIEHyokin5/8/15 9:57 pm
                                                                                                                                                                       Perpetual. Motion.Quirel5/9/15 4:30 am
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIEthebruce05/11/15 2:33 pm
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/9/15 1:52 pm
                                                     On death (GoT spoils)Cody Miller4/29/15 11:02 pm
                                                           Re: On death (GoT spoils)thebruce04/30/15 9:21 am
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Quirel4/30/15 5:14 pm
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/30/15 8:19 pm
                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Quirel5/1/15 3:31 pm
                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... *IMGs*thebruce05/4/15 11:33 am
                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... *IMGs*Grizzlei5/4/15 12:15 pm
                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Cody Miller4/29/15 10:59 pm
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...hunt3r4/30/15 3:09 am
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...MacGyver104/30/15 2:56 pm
                                         an aging jaded fanbase *NM*Bounce-A-Gon4/29/15 5:16 am
                                               Re: an aging jaded fanbasemunky-0584/29/15 6:50 am
                                                     Re: ehhhhhhhhhhRevenant19884/29/15 10:09 am
                                                           Re: ehhhhhhhhhhCody Miller4/30/15 2:42 pm
                                                                 Re: ehhhhhhhhhhMacGyver104/30/15 3:00 pm
                                                                       Re: ehhhhhhhhhhGeneral Vagueness4/30/15 3:32 pm
                                                           Re: ehhhhhhhhhhQuirel4/30/15 4:30 pm
                                         Wow.Quirel4/30/15 3:55 pm
                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...serpx5/4/15 8:32 pm

Sign up to post.

You will only be able to post to the forum if you first create a user profile.
If, however, you already have a user profile, please follow the "Set Preferences" link on the main index page and enter your user name to log in to post.