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Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...
By:thebruce0
Date: 5/4/15 11:12 am
In Response To: Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... (General Vagueness)

Keyword throughout: Precedent.

: What's your point in quoting that? She's telling the Chief she's mostly in
: the ship, which is being destroyed, that backs up what I said.

That she's not all down there. That she can be in multiple places at once. It sets a precedent. And she doesn't have to know where every part of her is.
Durga: It's like I have this whole left hand, and my right hand doesn't know what it's doing.

: One of the most important contrasts between human life and Halo's
: human-produced smart AIs is in the life cycle-- AIs have about 7 useful
: years, then they go rampant, then they cease to function. To contradict
: that is to render moot at least some of the exploration you say you want.

Cortana is unique among Smart AIs. Cheap way out? YMMV. She already lasted more than 7 years. Precedent (for the unexpected).

: That didn't happen though. She was already on her way out, she did some kind
: of seemingly harmful copying thing, she talked about what the Chief would
: face without her, and then she faded away, and the ship she was in is now
: rubble. There was no indication of there being any chance or any hope of
: her continuing to exist in any meaningful way. We were shown her death--
: not her impending death, her actual death. I cannot imagine a more
: thorough and final way of showing it that doesn't require things being
: vaporized and/or someone who's an expert saying " He's dead, Jim
: She's dead, John".

Well, I reserve the right to say "told to you" when she shows up again because you fell pray to storytelling tricks :P
I do not agree with your assessment that there is absolutely no way she could objectively exist beyond the scene we saw with her and John. If she does and it could only be in a way you'd despise, well I can't argue with that, and I'm not trying to. I'm just saying that it is feasible, considering how much precedent has been set, and making use of existing plot points that leave possibilities open. (regardless of how 'bad' you may consider the storytelling at that point)

: Yes, that's why it's bad! Any justification for her returning would be after
: the fact and hollow. There might be things in the universe that would
: allow for it but those were not acknowledged by the story in question.

"it's bad" - subjective. I'm not saying you're wrong in your opinion that she shouldn't come back. I can understand why you'd like it to be that way. I'm simply saying that there is a clear possibility and setup for it to happen, for mulitple reasons; from plot setups to the simple fact that she is a primary character and the story is based on the relationship between the two primary characters; and there are still 2 games to come in this particular arc. I would be completely shocked if she did not re-appear, 'alive' in some manner.

: Yes, and Halo 4 was not one of them, it was clearly about someone-- Cortana--
: dying, and someone else-- the Master Chief-- trying to help them (along
: with some Saturday morning cartoon villains because, what, are they going
: to pin their story on touchy feely interpersonal stuff? but I digress),
: and the ultimate failure to help in a meaningful way is so important to
: that story. That story ended, and it did not have a happy ending.

Again, subjective. I don't want to argue opinion.
This concept is not unique. Yes, it could go either way, but I firmly believe that this is all set up for her return in some way, because the center of the Chief's arc is he and Cortana. Once Halo 6 ends, and if Cortana has not returned in any way, then you'll have been correct in your assessment :P

: The point isn't to make an absolute statement about the universe. The point
: was to say that the story was clearly about her death, and about the
: finality of it, and it offered nothing contrary to that.

I agree, the story was about her death, and to the characters the apparent finality of her ended state. But as a storytelling mechanism, I don't see this anywhere near the definitive "Here is the good guy's body; he's not breathing; he is D.E.D. dead. And there is no (plot point) way that his death could be mistaken, or could be revived from being dead." From a storytelling perspective, there is plenty room for Cortana to feasibly return in some manner.

: Yes, they can use a plot device, they can use a deus ex machina, but they
: always can, and being attached to a character doesn't mean they should. To
: go back and say now "but then everything turned out OK" is...
: wrong, I can't come up with any more words for it, it would be wrong.

Again, if you want to label any story through history that has relied on 'tricking' the audience as Bad, then there's nothing else I can say. I believe that it's a setup, for the Chief's sake - he now believes she is 100% completely gone, and has to deal with it, work through it. That's his journey. He's holding on to her.

The question is, will he toss Goose's dogtags into the ocean and move on to save the universe again? Or will he hold on and make it his personal mission to find a way to rescue and revive her to life in some form once again because Love, and as a duo save the universe again?
It can go either way. And that is my point.
(and I think it's great you'd prefer the former story - discussion of different opinions like that helps keep speculation alive and rampant :)


Messages In This Thread

Halo 5: Guardians cover artGrizzlei4/28/15 4:46 pm
     Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artMacGyver104/28/15 5:15 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artArteenEsben4/28/15 7:28 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artcar154/28/15 7:37 pm
                 Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artserpx4/28/15 9:10 pm
                 Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artGravemind4/28/15 9:15 pm
     Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artgamerguy20024/28/15 6:27 pm
           Re: Halo 5: Guardians cover artzofinda4/28/15 6:45 pm
                 Overhypes *NM*ZackDark4/28/15 7:02 pm
                       Re: Overhypeszofinda4/28/15 7:19 pm
                             Woah, woah, woah, hold yer horsesZackDark4/28/15 8:29 pm
                                   #Better Be Buck *NM*Bounce-A-Gon4/28/15 8:44 pm
                                   Re: Woah, woah, woah, hold yer horsesserpx4/28/15 9:11 pm
                                         Hyperion *NM*ZackDark4/28/15 10:22 pm
                                         How will they fit all that onto the box I wonder. *NM*Apollo4/28/15 11:51 pm
                                               Re: How will they fit all that onto the box I wondGeneral Vagueness4/29/15 1:24 am
                                               I think this is the actual box art.Gravemind4/29/15 1:59 am
                                   You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...munky-0584/29/15 3:22 am
                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...hunt3r4/29/15 5:04 am
                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/29/15 10:43 am
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/29/15 1:38 pm
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/29/15 2:08 pm
                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/30/15 3:26 pm
                                                                       +1 *NM*Quirel4/30/15 4:34 pm
                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/30/15 8:17 pm
                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness4/30/15 10:11 pm
                                                                                   +1 again. *NM*Quirel5/1/15 3:52 pm
                                                                                   Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/4/15 11:12 am
                                                                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/4/15 1:26 pm
                                                                                               Kill this thread. kill it dead. i am tired of it *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/4/15 3:02 pm
                                                                                                     Re: How wude! *NM*thebruce05/4/15 3:21 pm
                                                                                                     Re: Yeah. Seriously. *NM*Hyokin5/5/15 2:58 pm
                                                                                                     I want to see how far this goes.Quirel5/5/15 3:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: I want to see how far this goes.thebruce05/5/15 3:46 pm
                                                                                                                 Re: I want to see how far this goes.Hyokin5/5/15 4:47 pm
                                                                                                           Re: I want to see how far this goes.General Vagueness5/6/15 2:24 am
                                                                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/4/15 3:20 pm
                                                                                                     rolls eyes and sighs heavily *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/4/15 3:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: Ok. *NM*thebruce05/4/15 4:52 pm
                                                                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/5/15 2:35 pm
                                                                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/5/15 3:31 pm
                                                                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/6/15 2:19 am
                                                                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/6/15 10:56 am
                                                                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/6/15 11:52 am
                                                                                                                                   Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/6/15 2:10 pm
                                                                                                                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/7/15 8:46 pm
                                                                                                                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/8/15 9:59 am
                                                                                                                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/8/15 12:13 pm
                                                                                                                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce05/8/15 12:42 pm
                                                                                                                                                                 WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIE *NM*Bounce-A-Gon5/8/15 9:42 pm
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIEHyokin5/8/15 9:57 pm
                                                                                                                                                                       Perpetual. Motion.Quirel5/9/15 4:30 am
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIEthebruce05/11/15 2:33 pm
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...General Vagueness5/9/15 1:52 pm
                                                     On death (GoT spoils)Cody Miller4/29/15 11:02 pm
                                                           Re: On death (GoT spoils)thebruce04/30/15 9:21 am
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Quirel4/30/15 5:14 pm
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...thebruce04/30/15 8:19 pm
                                                                 Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Quirel5/1/15 3:31 pm
                                                                       Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... *IMGs*thebruce05/4/15 11:33 am
                                                                             Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas... *IMGs*Grizzlei5/4/15 12:15 pm
                                               Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...Cody Miller4/29/15 10:59 pm
                                                     Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...hunt3r4/30/15 3:09 am
                                                           Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...MacGyver104/30/15 2:56 pm
                                         an aging jaded fanbase *NM*Bounce-A-Gon4/29/15 5:16 am
                                               Re: an aging jaded fanbasemunky-0584/29/15 6:50 am
                                                     Re: ehhhhhhhhhhRevenant19884/29/15 10:09 am
                                                           Re: ehhhhhhhhhhCody Miller4/30/15 2:42 pm
                                                                 Re: ehhhhhhhhhhMacGyver104/30/15 3:00 pm
                                                                       Re: ehhhhhhhhhhGeneral Vagueness4/30/15 3:32 pm
                                                           Re: ehhhhhhhhhhQuirel4/30/15 4:30 pm
                                         Wow.Quirel4/30/15 3:55 pm
                                         Re: You see, 343 is the new George Lucas...serpx5/4/15 8:32 pm

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