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Re: Your hog-fixing suggestions
Date: 3/9/13 11:10 am
In Response To: Your hog-fixing suggestions (Rockslider)

: I think you could've done with titling your reply 'Warthog fixes' or
: something. Evidently you've thought about this stuff quite a lot.

I think about it every time I use a Hog in any game after the original. You will see plenty of speedrun videos where the player kills his marine companions before he uses the Hog as a temporary turret. The gameplay is broken if you have to kill your own guys before they kill you.

: I think that in each game after H1, I've given the Marines one chance at
: taking the wheel with me aboard. And I'm pretty sure that each time, I got
: killed within seconds because of absolutely dumb driving - so that's the
: last time I bother trying it. H4 was no different there. It was just the
: same old story.

It actually works some times in Halo 4 on Normal difficulty and, since you can expect to die often in SpOps, I don't mind giving the marines the wheel on a Normal SpOps playthrough.

But it isn't a option if you want to avoid deaths at all costs.

: I noticed them seemingly shooting at bodies a few times in H4, causing me to
: turn in readiness for trouble - which wasn't there. So that was annoying.
: Looked like an AI failing, rather than being intended as gratuitous
: shooting.

Taunt enemy corpse is the name of a behavior that is built into the game. A programmer had to do work to make it happen.

It's OK if the shooting is brief and there are no live threats and there is dialog to let you know what is happening.

The name, "Taunt enemy corpse" came from an explanation from Bungie about why Keyes died so much in the original game when you tried to escort him from the brig on the Truth and Reconciliation. The NPCs had taunt enemy corpse turned on and were carrying needlers. They filled enemy corpses with so many needles that they exploded and the explosions killed those nearby.

: Enemy vehicle fire has been way too lethal since at least H3. It was one of
: my complaints then.

Halo 3 Wraiths were excellent shots and would shot mere milliseconds after seeing you.

: Your suggestions sound good. I'd expect the hog to at least slow during a
: changeover though, as a token bit of realism. I'm thinking that swapping
: places at full speed probably wouldn't be too healthy in real life.

I imagine that the Hog would decelerate when the driver takes his foot off the accelerator and that the Hog should drive in a straight line until someone takes over the wheel. Maybe a passenger could steer slightly until the driver takes over. It depends how much work 343 would want to put into the feature. I just like the idea of driving up to a good location, quickly take the gun, kill my targets and then get back to driving. The game is supposed to be fun so simple things should be easy to accomplish. You don't want to be fighting the controls and you don't want to perform too much work to do something simple.

What I mean by fighting the controls and doing too much work is that the (X) button tends to be very overloaded. It can:

  • Reload
  • Board vehicle
  • Tell marine to leave his seat
  • Initiate weapon swap with a marine

All those overloads can lead to jumping into a vehicle when your intention was to reload. It can lead to a reload when you meant to swap weapons.

Sometimes when you want to give a tank passenger a Rocket Launcher, he takes it but then thinks that you want him to drive. Sometimes you know that there will be enemies around the corner on the left so you try to give the guy on the left the RL. He takes it but then tries to drive. You kick him out and he sits on the right side of the tank. You kick him off but he reboards on the right again. You take the RL from him to give to another marine on the left and he reboards on the right. AGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Or if you want a marine to get off the tank to take your weapon you find that pressing (X) makes you board to drive. NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

It can be frustrating. :-) This needs looking into.

Being able to swap weapons can be useful but it can lead to too much micro-management. Sometimes I wonder if it is worth it.

Maybe it would be helpful if you could fix your stare at a marine in a vehicle and press and hold (X) until he gets the message and dismounts, comes over and swaps, then gets back into the same seat.

I don't know what the best options are but I hope that somebody at 343 is looking into this so that we can have better polished and easier gameplay in Halo 5.

The original game was very simple and a joy to play. Some of the later additions have eroded this. 343 needs to smooth off those added rough edges.

: I'd say they need to remove it entirely, as it merely seems like an AI
: failing. Should be easy enough (and because of that, I'm finding it hard
: to imagine why the situation with that is presently so bad).

I imagine that most behaviors have parameters to adjust them. There could be a duration time that specifies how long they keep firing at a corpse. If you put in too high a number then you get them shooting far too long.

It is fairly common practice to put these parameters into text files that can be read by the game engine. This way you can alter game behavior without having to recompile the game. So you could tweak a file in a text editor, restart the game from a checkpoint, and see the new behavior.

Messages In This Thread

Halo 4 three months outCody Miller3/5/13 1:40 pm
     Re: Halo 4 three months outGeneral Vagueness3/5/13 4:26 pm
     Re: Halo 4 three months outscarab3/5/13 5:23 pm
           Dull PrometheansRockslider3/5/13 8:10 pm
                 Re: Dull PrometheansCaptain Spark3/6/13 12:37 am
                       Re: Dull PrometheansRockslider3/6/13 3:53 pm
                             Re: Dull PrometheansLeviathan3/6/13 5:39 pm
                       Re: Dull PrometheansLouis Wu3/6/13 4:20 pm
                       Re: Dull PrometheansGeneral Vagueness3/7/13 5:44 pm
                       Re: Dull PrometheansNikko B2013/8/13 11:19 am
                 Re: Dull Prometheansscarab3/6/13 2:43 am
                       Your hog-fixing suggestionsRockslider3/6/13 3:42 pm
                             Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsGravemind3/6/13 4:09 pm
                                   Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsuberfoop3/6/13 4:27 pm
                                         Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsRockslider3/6/13 4:43 pm
                                               Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsuberfoop3/6/13 4:54 pm
                                                     Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsRockslider3/6/13 5:25 pm
                                                           Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsGravemind3/6/13 6:11 pm
                                                                 Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsPhoenix_92863/6/13 7:51 pm
                                                                       Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsGravemind3/7/13 1:04 am
                             Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsscarab3/9/13 11:10 am
                                   Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsRockslider3/9/13 1:02 pm
                                         Re: Your hog-fixing suggestionsscarab3/9/13 1:33 pm
     Re: Halo 4 three months outBry3/5/13 7:15 pm
           Re: Halo 4 three months outGravemind3/5/13 8:10 pm
                 Re: Halo 4 three months outBry3/6/13 2:38 am
                       Re: Halo 4 three months outGravemind3/6/13 4:02 am
                 Re: Halo 4 three months outRC Master3/6/13 9:02 am
                       Re: Halo 4 three months outGravemind3/6/13 1:00 pm
           Re: Halo 4 three months outVincent3/5/13 8:36 pm
           Re: Halo 4 three months outAvateur3/5/13 9:19 pm
                 Re: Halo 4 three months outBry3/6/13 6:25 am
                       Re: Halo 4 three months outAvateur3/6/13 2:47 pm
           Re: Halo 4 three months outCody Miller3/8/13 1:32 pm

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