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Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANs
By:Archilen
Date: 12/12/14 8:24 am
In Response To: Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANs (General Vagueness)

: It does seem like a lot of them focus on that. I don't know much about it
: from a personal standpoint, but almost every interview and conversation
: I've seen with a writer or actor where they talk about a character of
: theirs that's seen as bad includes them sympathizing with the character or
: saying it's a matter of perspective or being misunderstood, or at least
: saying that they don't pass judgment on the character in a hard-and-fast
: way, and I've seen many say that you have to be on a character's side when
: you portray them, or at least not be against them, or else the portrayal
: will become a caricature and not work properly. This would apply directly
: to Halsey and a few others, and I think the basic principle applies to the
: Spartan II's, if you want to show them and show them right you have to get
: in their heads and not be overly concerned with anything they're not
: overly concerned with. Nylund is at a distinct advantage there because he
: seems to be the one that wrote at least half and probably a large majority
: of the characterization of the S-II's in the first place (we'll never know
: what ideas came from who until we get the Halo Bible, specifically the
: version of it that was current as of a few months before the first game
: was released).

It's clear most of the now-iconic SPARTAN-II characters and Halsey were pretty much Nylund's babies and that he liked to write about them. That doesn't mean he didn't acknowledge Halsey's more controversial actions as wrong (he has actually done that rather unambiguously). It's just that most people are smart enough to know this without someone like Karen Traviss shoving it down their throats.

: I think this post shows a part of why some authors and fans reject the older
: view of the S-IIs: it's been romanticized. We can argue semantics and
: psychology over whether they're "broken", and we can throw
: around figures about how much they can lift, but I think the majority of
: the human population would call what happened to them wrong, but a lot of
: people see it or want to see it as justified in one way or another, or
: even as a good thing overall. This is just as repellent or even more
: repellent than the thing itself in a lot of cases, it's like burning down
: someone's house and then lying to them about it. To portray characters
: accurately and celebrate their strengths and lament their flaws, or simply
: show their strengths and flaws, is one thing, but you take into account
: past portrayals and different people's views of those portrayals and it
: gets messier.

It's not about justifying anything either way, it's about portrayal. It is completely out of character for the SPARTANs to be crying about the fate imposed on them. Whether it was right or wrong from an outside standpoint is irrelevant since they grew up that way and that's the only life they know. And they like it, more or less. Just like the Ancient Greek Spartans or really any other brutal warrior culture obviously didn't judge themselves by today's moral standards.


Messages In This Thread

One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageRevenant198812/2/14 1:03 pm
     I nearly criedThe BS Police12/2/14 1:28 pm
           Re: Right?Hyokin12/2/14 1:32 pm
                 Why do people keep saying this?FugitiveSoldier12/3/14 11:16 am
           Re: I nearly criedRevenant198812/2/14 1:39 pm
                 Re: I nearly criedGrizzlei12/2/14 1:55 pm
           WeightCody Miller12/2/14 9:08 pm
                 Re: WeightAzo 'Galvat12/2/14 10:43 pm
           What is that monstrosity? *NM*R4112/3/14 10:19 am
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageyakaman12/2/14 1:50 pm
     Submachine GunGrizzlei12/2/14 1:57 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageLostSpartan98712/2/14 1:59 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 2:20 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagegamerguy200212/2/14 3:40 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 4:39 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagegamerguy200212/2/14 4:56 pm
                             Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 7:25 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagethebruce012/2/14 5:25 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/2/14 2:14 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 4:31 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/3/14 2:47 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/3/14 3:25 pm
     The fuck did they do to the shield sounds? *NM*General Vagueness12/2/14 2:42 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageTDSpiral12/2/14 3:15 pm
     "Prophet's Bane?"Azo 'Galvat12/2/14 4:03 pm
           Re: "Prophet's Bane?"Revenant198812/2/14 4:13 pm
                 Re: "Prophet's Bane?"TDSpiral12/2/14 4:46 pm
                       Re: "Prophet's Bane?"Azo 'Galvat12/2/14 7:40 pm
                       Re: "Prophet's Bane?"Frankie12/3/14 1:46 pm
                             Re: "Prophet's Bane?"Hyokin12/3/14 3:32 pm
                                   Re: "Prophet's Bane?"The BS Police12/3/14 5:25 pm
                                   Re: "Prophet's Bane?"gamerguy200212/3/14 10:56 pm
     Looks like Halo *NM*ArteenEsben12/2/14 6:00 pm
     Let's help 343 guys!!!Chris101b12/2/14 6:06 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageIbeechu12/2/14 6:33 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagePhoenix_928612/2/14 6:37 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGrizzlei12/2/14 7:49 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageFrankie12/3/14 1:05 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageMacGyver1012/3/14 1:08 pm
                             Re: Ha!Hyokin12/3/14 1:37 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageIbeechu12/3/14 3:01 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageLouis Wu12/3/14 9:01 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 8:54 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageJironimo12/3/14 12:38 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/3/14 2:35 pm
     Watched three games...Phoenix_928612/2/14 6:35 pm
           Re: Watched three games...Cody Miller12/2/14 9:05 pm
                 Re: Watched three games...Chris101b12/2/14 10:32 pm
                       Re: Watched three games...Cody Miller12/3/14 3:49 am
                             Re: Watched three games...uberfoop12/3/14 4:08 am
                             Re: Watched three games...Chris101b12/3/14 5:05 am
           Re: Watched three games...thebruce012/3/14 10:58 am
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageMasterz133712/2/14 11:03 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagegamerguy200212/2/14 11:23 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageAvateur12/2/14 11:24 pm
     I actually like the idea of talking Spartans...RC Master12/3/14 5:13 pm
           Re: I actually like the idea of talking Spartans..Dervish12/3/14 6:52 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGravemind12/5/14 3:44 am
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageHyokin12/5/14 12:18 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/7/14 5:02 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageThe BS Police12/7/14 5:39 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/8/14 9:06 pm
                             Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagethebruce012/9/14 10:24 am
                                   Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/9/14 3:33 pm
                                         Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/9/14 4:28 pm
                                               Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagethebruce012/10/14 9:36 am
                                                     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/10/14 1:43 pm
                                                           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagethebruce012/10/14 2:42 pm
                                                           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageIbeechu12/10/14 4:18 pm
                                                                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/10/14 6:22 pm
                                                                       You're reaching. Desperately. *NM*thebruce012/10/14 7:16 pm
                                                                             Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Avateur12/10/14 8:50 pm
                                                                                   Re: You're reaching. Desperately.thebruce012/11/14 9:54 am
                                                                                         Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Avateur12/11/14 7:46 pm
                                                                                               Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Cody Miller12/11/14 11:52 pm
                                                                                                     Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Avateur12/12/14 12:01 am
                                                                                                           Re: You're reaching. Desperately.thebruce012/12/14 9:40 am
                                                                                                                 Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Avateur12/12/14 1:59 pm
                                                                                                                       Re: I don't know what to say any more *NM*thebruce012/12/14 2:32 pm
                                                                                                                             Checkmate *NM*Avateur12/12/14 5:42 pm
                                                                                                     Re: You're reaching. Desperately.thebruce012/12/14 9:40 am
                                                                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/12/14 2:36 am
                                                           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/12/14 5:40 am
                                         Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/12/14 6:03 am
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGravemind12/8/14 4:25 pm
     So...what's up with that sword?...SEspider12/7/14 5:51 pm
           Re: So...what's up with that sword?...General Vagueness12/7/14 6:04 pm
                 Re: So...what's up with that sword?...SEspider12/11/14 3:42 am
           Re: So...what's up with that sword?...Littlebigman12/7/14 6:50 pm
                 Re: So...what's up with that sword?...Hyokin12/7/14 7:49 pm
                       Re: So...what's up with that sword?...GrimBrother One12/7/14 7:56 pm
                             Re: So...what's up with that sword?...Hyokin12/7/14 8:24 pm
                                   I wonder...Quirel12/8/14 1:47 am
                       Woops, you are correct! *NM* *NM*Littlebigman12/7/14 8:53 pm
     Dudebro?The Loot12/10/14 10:27 am
           Sarah Palmer was dudebrockamp12/10/14 11:01 am
                 Re: Sarah Palmer was dudebrocar1512/10/14 1:41 pm
                 Re: Sarah Palmer was dudebroIbeechu12/10/14 4:00 pm
                       Re: Sarah Palmer was dudebrogamerguy200212/10/14 5:11 pm
                             Note to self: don't type while hacking up mucus :( *NM*gamerguy200212/10/14 5:19 pm
           "Meet A Dudebrahman."Morpheus12/10/14 11:20 am
           Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Revenant198812/10/14 11:40 am
                 Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....General Vagueness12/10/14 1:10 pm
                       Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Revenant198812/10/14 1:20 pm
                       Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Chewbaccawakka12/10/14 1:23 pm
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....thebruce012/10/14 2:56 pm
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Postmortem12/11/14 1:15 am
                                   Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....The Lionheart12/12/14 9:29 am
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....The Lionheart12/12/14 9:27 am
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Jaydee12/12/14 12:05 pm
                       Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Ibeechu12/10/14 4:09 pm
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....General Vagueness12/12/14 2:13 am
                 Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....serpx12/10/14 2:57 pm
                 On the portrayal of SPARTANsArchilen12/11/14 4:48 am
                       Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/11/14 10:01 am
                             Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsRevenant198812/11/14 10:44 am
                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/11/14 11:29 am
                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsQuirel12/12/14 4:59 pm
                                         Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsArchilen12/15/14 6:55 am
                                               Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/15/14 11:16 am
                                                     Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsQuirel12/15/14 3:38 pm
                                                           Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/15/14 7:48 pm
                                                                 Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsQuirel12/18/14 5:05 am
                                                                       Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/18/14 10:04 am
                                                                             Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsmc_leprechaun12/19/14 4:23 am
                                                                                   Re: Trek replicator - 'Armor, Mjolnir, Mark IV'thebruce012/19/14 9:44 am
                                                                                         Re: Trek replicator - 'Armor, Mjolnir, Mark IV'mc_leprechaun12/22/14 5:51 am
                                                                                         Re: Trek replicator - 'Armor, Mjolnir, Mark IV'Quirel12/23/14 3:15 pm
                                                                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANstadboz12/22/14 5:24 pm
                             Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsArchilen12/11/14 12:54 pm
                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/11/14 3:06 pm
                       Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANs *IMG*The Lionheart12/12/14 12:01 am
                       Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsGeneral Vagueness12/12/14 2:47 am
                             Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsArchilen12/12/14 8:24 am
                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsJaydee12/12/14 11:58 am
                 Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....The Lionheart12/11/14 11:17 pm
           Re: Dudebro?hunt3r12/11/14 1:45 am
           Cultural Imperialismscarab12/17/14 5:57 pm
                 Re: Cultural Imperialismzofinda12/17/14 7:42 pm
                       Re: Cultural Imperialismzofinda12/17/14 7:42 pm
                 Re: Cultural ImperialismRevenant198812/18/14 9:00 am
                       Re: Cultural Imperialismscarab12/18/14 10:03 am
                             Re: Cultural Imperialismthebruce012/18/14 10:06 am
                             Re: Cultural ImperialismRevenant198812/18/14 10:30 am
                                   Re: Cultural ImperialismQuirel12/18/14 3:46 pm
                 Re: Cultural Imperialismpadraig0812/18/14 10:34 am
                       Localize S4 behaviourscarab12/18/14 3:04 pm
                             Re: Localize S4 behaviourGeneral Vagueness12/18/14 4:05 pm
                 There's got to be a better word for this.Quirel12/18/14 3:56 pm
                       Re: There's got to be a better word for this.scarab12/18/14 6:30 pm
                             Re: There's got to be a better word for this.Quirel12/19/14 4:29 am
                                   Re: There's got to be a better word for this.scarab12/19/14 7:41 am
                                         Re: There's got to be a better word for this.Quirel12/20/14 3:16 pm
                                         Re: There's got to be a better word for this.General Vagueness12/20/14 4:00 pm
                                               Re: There's got to be a better word for this.General Vagueness12/20/14 4:25 pm
                             Re: There's got to be a better word for this.General Vagueness12/20/14 3:41 pm

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