Frequently Asked Forum Questions
 Search the HBO News Archives

Any All Exact 
Search the Halo Updates DBs

BWU Halo Halo2 
Search Older Posts on This Forum:
Posts on Current Forum | Archived Posts

View Thread Reply Return to Index Set Prefs Previous Next
Re: Side thought (kinda OT)
Date: 2/5/14 12:39 am
In Response To: Re: Side thought (kinda OT) (scarab)

: I see it as one of those things you just go along with. many SF stories
: postulate FTL and I just say, "OK". For the Spartan program I
: just accept that she can tell how awesome her Spartans will be just from
: their DNA (although there were also the supplemental tests done to
: evaluate the target children).

The supplemental evaluations make it easier to believe, yes.

: But if Halsey was sure that her Spartans were "one in a billion,
: Alexanders" then she sure found a good way to neuter them and ensure
: that their contributions to the war were kept to a minimum (win skirmishes
: on the ground until the Covies turn on their ventral beams and glass the
: ground).

I think one can point out some interesting parallels between the UNSC and Nazi Germany. Both were more than willing to pump prodigious levels of resources into Wunderwaffen with questionable applications to the battlefield. It didn't matter what the generals thought of it; a politician liked it, so the program would move forward.
(To be fair, this isn't strictly a Nazi/UNSC thing)

The goal of the Spartan II project was to create shock troops that could assassinate opposition leaders and colonial warlords with no casualties. Think Black Hawk Down, if the Army Rangers could be inserted without half of Mogadishu knowing, and if the rangers were also bulletproof.
Could a battalion of ODSTs do it? Probably, though they'd take casualties. Would a UNSC or a CMA bureaucrat prefer to fight a war where they didn't have to justify casualties to the public? Count on it.

: ONI and Parangosky are not synonymous. People in ONI backed H's project.
: People in ONI knew about the clones.

Parangosky, apparently, was in charge of ONI when the Spartan-II project was initiated. But she didn't know about the clones. Somehow, Halsey hid what had to be the most expensive and technically complicated part of the early program. And for some reason, she chose to hide an aspect of the program that, in all honesty, wasn't any more immoral than the 'training child soldiers' part.

But we have to accept that Halsey hid the clones from her superiors, because Parangosky calls her out on it in Glasslands. And it's not a "Hey, look, I just discovered my conscience!" CYA speech, because Halsey doesn't counter and accuse Parangosky of lying.

In fiction and in real life, I'm automatically skeptical when the people in charge of a government program say that they didn't know what the lower ranks were up to.

: I don't think she wanted to give Halsey a spirited defense of her actions or
: maybe it was just difficult for her to put herself in H's shoes. Maybe she
: does, genuinely, see H as a Mengele.

Then she's not as good of a journalist as she thinks she is. "Write from the POV of someone you vehemently disagree with" is a basic Creative Writing exercise.

I mean, yeah, it's difficult. I wrote from the perspective of an animal rights protester, and it was hard as Hell. I just don't understand not trying.

: That's possible but I suspect that Travis didn't want to live in H's head.

I'm imagining Travis trying to live in Halsey's head... and then Halsey gets rid of her, Tyler Durden-style. BLAM!


: Is it? Halsey did seem to be on a path of making her feel better about
: herself even to the point of kidnapping a couple of Spartans to save them.

I think that's a little different from "Rewriting your reality as you go." Maybe completely different. If she really did rewrite her reality to suit herself as a matter of habit, I don't think she'd even be capable of attempting to redeem herself.

: WTF is objectivity anyway. If you have an ax to grind then just make sure
: that you grind it well. :-)

: Could be that doing so would conflict with her constructed self image as a
: repentant. (Can that be a noun? It is now)

Doesn't seem realistic.
I mean, Halsey wouldn't be defending what she did. She'd be defending herself against false accusations.

: But, yes, I did want to slap Mendez with a wet fish. Something medium large -
: like a Pollock.

Better yet, a sturgeon. Big, heavy, and those scutes will leave one hell of a laceration.

: The trilogy was flawed but I did enjoy it. I was appalled when I read TFoR.
: It reminded me of E.E. "Doc" Smith or much of the Astounding
: Stories stuff.

You know, that's probably the first time I've seen that comparison. And I love it.

Lensmen <3

: It was like, "WTF. The Chief was kidnapped as a
: kid?!?" It didn't sit right with me.

I didn't really have a problem with it, but I was 15 at the time. Not saying that I was too dense and uneducated to pick up on it, just that I had no problem with the government doing that "For your own good."

: What was it all about?

Well, it certainly wasn't about creating the 'genetically perfect' soldier, like Mendez said. It wasn't about blond hair and blue eyes and a perfect Aryan complexion.
I mean, come on. What does 'genetically perfect' even mean?

From what I understand, the genes Halsey was looking for were markers for specific traits that would be desirable in a soldier. Intelligence, physical build... oh, yeah, and also the physiology needed to survive the augmentation process.

: Hypocrisy is always easier to spot in other people. The first person a liar
: lies to is himself.

Speaking as a pathological liar, I have no clue what you're talking about. ; )

: He skirted around it. The fact that he skirted around it is not a flaw in
: Travis' writing. She is showing how people can skirt around awkward issues
: and how we can clearly see the mote in someone else's eye.

*Not convinced*

: ONI is unhealthy - for everyone.

In fact, it's known to cause cancer in the state of California.

: Why do you say that?

Because it's finally relevant to the story, and they can go out and act rather than sitting around on the Port Stanley and angst about how terrible and immoral the Spartan II project is. Also, IMHO, Mal and Vaz finally become distinct characters.

: The failure to make us like her gives them an opportunity for story telling
: goodness. Though I don't see her as a villain (she doesn't see herself as
: a baddy).

Very few villains do. The most heinous villains often see themselves as a force for good.

: But she is a bit of a dick and people can rub off her.

*Reads that sentence.*
*Reads it again.*

[voice="Sigmund Freud"]Fascinating[/voice]

Anyhow, I think you meant "she rubs people the wrong way."

: She's a good source of character conflict. The more goody-two-shoes
: characters have to stand in relation to her - her strong opinions force
: you to stand for your own point of view. And you're never sure how bad
: things will get when she's set on a course of action that you don't
: approve of.

In that case, Spartan Assault will make a wonderful "Start of Darkness" game.

Messages In This Thread

Mortal Dictata thoughts *Minor SP*Grizzlei1/24/14 4:20 am
     One more concern to note...Grizzlei1/24/14 4:24 am
           THISMid7night1/24/14 9:36 am
                 SPOILERY MINI SPOILFEST part 1 *SP*Grizzlei1/25/14 7:50 pm
                       Eh sorry, that's "Late 2517 - Reach" *NM*Grizzlei1/25/14 7:53 pm
                       Re: SPOILERY MINI SPOILFEST part 1 *SP*DEEP NNN1/25/14 9:40 pm
                       Re: SPOILERY MINI SPOILFEST part 1 *SP*Avateur1/25/14 9:57 pm
                             Re: SPOILERY MINI SPOILFEST part 1 *SP*Grizzlei1/25/14 10:20 pm
                                   Re: SPOILERY MINI SPOILFEST part 1 *SP*DEEP NNN1/25/14 10:48 pm
                                   Re: SPOILERY MINI SPOILFEST part 1 *SP*Avateur1/25/14 11:19 pm
                                         Re: The SpartansRevenant19881/26/14 1:06 am
                                         Nitpicking...Arithmomaniac1/26/14 1:21 pm
                                               Re: Nitpicking...Avateur1/26/14 1:35 pm
                                   Maybe\probably more spoilers. *big post*Revenant19881/26/14 12:46 am
                                         Re: Maybe\probably more spoilers. *big post*Grizzlei1/26/14 1:42 am
                                               Re: Maybe\probably more spoilers. *big post*Revenant19881/26/14 3:56 am
                                                     Re: Maybe\probably more spoilers. *big post*DEEP NNN1/26/14 8:21 am
                                                     Re: Maybe\probably more spoilers. *big post*Grizzlei1/26/14 1:50 pm
                                                           Re: Maybe\probably more spoilers. *big post*Quirel1/26/14 2:39 pm
                                                                 Re: Maybe\probably more spoilers. *big post*Grizzlei1/26/14 4:13 pm
                                               Re: Maybe\probably more spoilers. *big post*Arithmomaniac1/26/14 12:37 pm
                                         Re: Maybe\probably more spoilers. *big post*DEEP NNN1/26/14 8:17 am
                                         Chief wins alldavidfuchs1/27/14 11:22 am
                                               Re: Chief wins allRevenant19881/27/14 11:34 am
                                   Re: SPOILERY MINI SPOILFEST part 1 *SP*Arithmomaniac1/26/14 1:06 pm
                                         Re: SPOILERY MINI SPOILFEST part 1 *SP*Grizzlei1/26/14 1:33 pm
                       What's Jorge's deal?Dervish2/2/14 5:36 pm
     Side thought (kinda OT)padraig081/24/14 10:26 am
           Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Revenant19881/24/14 10:55 am
                 Re: Side thought (kinda OT)padraig081/24/14 11:06 am
                       Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Revenant19881/24/14 11:12 am
                             Re: Side thought (kinda OT)padraig081/24/14 11:15 am
                 Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Grizzlei1/24/14 4:19 pm
           Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Leviathan1/24/14 11:58 am
                 My thoughts to both Padraig and Levi actuallyMacGyver101/24/14 3:26 pm
                       Link for Epilogue Cutscene BTW: Jump to 2:35MacGyver101/24/14 3:29 pm
                       Re: My thoughts to both Padraig and Levi actuallypadraig081/24/14 3:45 pm
                             Re: My thoughts to both Padraig and Levi actuallyArithmomaniac1/26/14 1:12 pm
                                   Re: My thoughts to both Padraig and Levi actuallyGrizzlei1/26/14 4:54 pm
                       Re: My thoughts to both Padraig and Levi actuallyQuirel1/24/14 9:41 pm
                 The only thing I disagree with...Quirel1/24/14 10:03 pm
                       Re: The only thing I disagree with...Leviathan1/24/14 11:00 pm
           Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Grizzlei1/24/14 3:53 pm
                 Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Avateur1/24/14 5:57 pm
                       Re: Side thought (kinda OT)scarab2/2/14 5:05 pm
                             Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Quirel2/2/14 9:13 pm
                                   Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Avateur2/2/14 10:18 pm
                                   Re: Side thought (kinda OT)davidfuchs2/2/14 11:09 pm
                                   Re: Side thought (kinda OT)scarab2/4/14 7:17 pm
                                         Re: Side thought (kinda OT)rhubarb2/4/14 7:30 pm
                                               Re: Side thought (kinda OT)scarab2/5/14 12:39 pm
                                         Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Quirel2/5/14 12:39 am
                             Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Avateur2/2/14 10:16 pm
                                   Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Avateur2/2/14 10:19 pm
                                         Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Quirel2/2/14 10:36 pm
                                   Re: Side thought (kinda OT)Revenant19882/2/14 10:34 pm
                                         Spoil me rev, I want that knowledge in me now! *NM*padraig082/3/14 11:54 am
                                   Re: Side thought (kinda OT)scarab2/5/14 1:02 pm
           I kinda want to play as a rogue Spartan/EliteFlynn J Taggart1/24/14 7:53 pm
                 Re: I kinda want to play as a rogue Spartan/Elitecrazedone19881/25/14 3:28 am
                       Re: I kinda want to play as a rogue Spartan/EliGrizzlei1/25/14 10:36 am
     Re: Mortal Dictata thoughts *Minor SP*DHalo1/25/14 6:36 am
           Re: Mortal Dictata thoughts *Minor SP*Grizzlei1/25/14 10:08 am
                 Re: Mortal Dictata thoughts *Minor SP*DHalo1/25/14 10:59 am
                       Re: Mortal Dictata thoughts *Minor SP*Grizzlei1/25/14 11:59 am
                             Re: Mortal Dictata thoughts *Minor SP*DHalo1/25/14 1:47 pm
                                   Re: Mortal Dictata thoughts *Minor SP*Grizzlei1/25/14 2:21 pm
           Re: Mortal Dictata thoughts *Minor SP*Avateur1/25/14 7:32 pm
                 Re: Mortal Dictata thoughts *Minor SP*Grizzlei1/25/14 8:02 pm
     Simple solution to all of this controversy...Postmortem1/25/14 3:08 pm
           No.Grizzlei1/25/14 3:30 pm
                 Re: No.davidfuchs1/27/14 11:05 am
           Re: Simple solution to all of this controversy...Frankie1/27/14 2:13 pm
                 Re: Simple solution to all of this controversy...Quirel1/27/14 2:15 pm
                 Who is this strange person?Revenant19881/27/14 3:38 pm
                 See, this is what happensMacGyver101/27/14 3:52 pm
                       Re: See, this is what happensQuirel1/27/14 4:02 pm
                       Re: See, this is what happensmunky-0581/27/14 4:05 pm
                 Re: Simple solution to all of this controversy...DEEP NNN1/27/14 6:17 pm

Sign up to post.

You will only be able to post to the forum if you first create a user profile.
If, however, you already have a user profile, please follow the "Set Preferences" link on the main index page and enter your user name to log in to post.