Re: Ye olde list of complaints
Posted By: Jesse	Date: 1/4/01 11:11 p.m.
In Response To: Ye olde list of complaints (Zyrxil) : The following is a list of reasons why Oni could turn out to be a big : disappointment that people in Arstechnica forum : (http://www.arstechnica.com) posted. They are cut and pasted to save me : time, ";"s signify the comments after it are posted by a : different person, might be some overlap. : Post responses, and not idiotic responses like "If you don't like it : don't buy it fucktard!". Allright, I've gotten over it enough to post sensibly(for most of them, please forgive me my occasional divergence.) : graphics: like a 32 bit version of Shogo. low detail textures and rather : generic architecture and characters. the occasional flare and alpha : channel effect round out the measly special effects department. and those : image overlays to show that they couldn't do mouth movement like they did : with Halflife how many years ago? I have nothing to say about this except the game is extremely playable(I even had it running with all of the characters in the manplant in the same room without too bad of a slowdown. Regardless of the specs, that's nice), and I haven't minded anything in the graphics enough that I would be willing to accept playability being lowered(as is often the case in the really spectacular looking games... or rather, the requirements are raised). : gameplay: i'm not sure how many times i've elbowed hard into mid-air a good : two feet from my target. the combos are booooooring and you're lucky if : you land your hits. you can only carry one gun at a time [???!!!] and you : spend all your time hitting switches and logging into console machines. "how do you get to carnagy hall?" "practice, practice, practice." One gun at a time is rather a pain, but as has been pointed out, it is more realistic... actualy no, you should be able to holster one gun and carry a second, but oh well. I personaly spent most of my time beating the crap out of people... : NO ONLINE PLAY? CHORUS: Ah well, there's many a game that has no online play that I really wish did have it. It doesn't actualy make the game any worse in my opinion(since I have yet to get an online game to work properly outside of sneaking into computer labs at school to play quake on the lan), it just doesn't make it any better. Besides, I've known for a while, so it isn't even close to a "let-down" I wasn't all that surprised really, since I could see where they could very easily be having troubles with multiplayer. : ; : This game could have been so much more complex, but perhaps seeing as it : needs to be playable on a ps2, the aspirations were toned down. There : might have been skill points, fighting styles, skills, tools, little side : things to do, weapon skills, alternate routes for everything, more ways of : sneaking, full multiplayer modes e.g- beatem up DM, CTF, a Commando style : mode, loosely based on CS, but with TCTF officers vs Strikers on missions, : more stealth emphasized with built in voice communication. Etc, etc. You : can see how much bigger Oni could have been. Yes this game could have been more, given that there was more time put into it. That doesn't change what it is. There actualy is fighting styles to an extent, the different characters have different moves which forces different styles. It is too bad that you can't actualy choose between 3 or 4 characters at the begining of the story, but that would sort of play with the storyline, wouldn't it. I'm willing to accept that they did what they did well, just because it doesn't have extras doesn't make it a bad game. And for the multiplayer: CHORUS : ; : The game is pretty basic. : Besides the sliding and flips, there aren't any complex maneuvers the person : themselves can do. No climbing, precise jumping, lifting/throwing things. : So much potential for fun.... You know what bugs me is there's not all that much to lift/throw. Or climb for that matter. Where are all of the chairs, garbage pails, ladders? The jumping precision seems to be ok for me. My only problem with it has been that if they hit any part of your body while you're jumping you go backwards instead of, say, just your feet getting tripped up. : Combat seems okay after a while, but the special moves are pretty difficult : to pull off on the keyboard. A little more leeway in the control scheme : would have helped a lot. "How do you get to..." : Your buddies are pretty stupid. They won't weave towards a guy with a gun, : but run directly at him while getting machine gun in the face. Yeah, the ai doesn't seem to handle weapons as well as it could, I get the specific feeling the game was made to work with fistfights, and the ai is definitely good there. Plus we have it on good word that the more advanced opponents will do more intelligent stuff like weaving : You can kill innocents after they give you... *shudder* hypo. No reprimands : for that so far! Shudder? I think that they had to do something for healing, and these hypos do a much better job than most healing items, since they take a while, and can be interupted. Shame about the no reprimands, but I guess if you were alone in the field in a terrorist crisis, if they don't care if the terrorists kill the innocents, they don't care if you do either(at least, unless you say something about it...). Obviously in this game, although you're a crime fighting agency, the publics safety takes second priority to catching the criminals. : The lack of moves is disheartening. Kick combos are lacking. bwah? I never really found myself extremely lacking in moves : Graphics are basic. Environments seem stiff and motionless. You won't be : destroying things like the king of interactivity, Duke Nukem 3-D. Allright, I was a doom player, and a long time deHacker, so I wasn't all that impressed with what I saw of Duke Nukem 3-D. I'd seen it all already, and was reasonably sure I'd see it again better in a quake mod, and I was right. I'm hoping that they will make it easy to mod oni, and so far it looks like it's coded to be(unless the clam up on tools), with documented code. : The voices are still horrible. The "villain" doesn't seem very : villainous at all. ok, you like duke nukem, but these voices are horrible : Anime cutscenes are still poor. Konoko's face when she sees the enemy run out : at the beginning of the second level is laughable. : Shogo kicks this game's ass left and right. Never played Shogo... offhand from what I know I'd say that shogo kicks this game's ass left, but oni kicks shogo's ass right : Where the hell's the multiplayer? Arena combat is VERY doable for this type : of game. Co-op? Capture the flag? Steal the bacon? Football? Time trials? CHORUS as an addition, how can you say it's "VERY doable" I've never seen it done before? : ; : Well, both demos have seemed to be pretty easy. The first level the first : time I played it seemed kind of approaching difficult, but now is very : easy. The first time I played it I did not know about the compass thing. I : hope that their is either a difficulty option, or a lot of levels. I like this one, he played it through twice. Real disapointing game there. There is a difficulty, but there are far too few levels for my tastes. I still played the crap out of the three I have though, so I don't think this game is too lacking for replay. : ; : Oni just isn't fun : For starters, I hate jumping : Also, I'm sick of Lara Croft ripoffs, and I never saw what the big deal was : with Lara Croft anyway : Hence, I hate games that seem like Tomb Raider to me : The tutorial mission is trite : The control scheme at least in the demo version I played (I can't imagine : buying the real game) was awful and unusable oh, just one thing "I hate jumping"? What the he11 does that mean?!? : ; : I think it has so much more potential, but as it is, after the second : play-through, the demo becomes so insanely easy that it's ridiculous. I : want to like this game, because I think the style is great, but I just : can't bring myself to really get excited about it. The problem is that it : is blatantly showing you that it has to be a console game first and a PC : game second. Now, I have nothing against console games. I love some : console games - I currently can't stop playing ZeldaMM - but this game : belongs on a console, and only a console. : The lack of precision in the controls, plus the weak combo system, plus the : scarcity of enemies in the levels - it all points to a console game. I : don't doubt that it would be fun for a little while, but once the shine : wears off, I'm sort of worried that there won't be anything else to the : game. For a game that promised to be so much more, it's disappointing to : see it be so very little. I enjoyed it, and played just the three levels I have a lot. I'm quite happy that it's coming to the pc, and isn't just a console game. : ; : Oni doesn't have a complex combat system by any stretch of the imagination, : basic compared to today's fighters. It's control scheme is basic compared : to yesterday's favorite, Tomb Raider. It's interactivity is basic compared : to Build engine games, and its environment is basic compared to... well, : almost anything that's actually worth playing. Is it really a bad thing that it's combat system isn't complex? The only way that statement can be interpereted in a sensible way doesn't apply to oni in my experience. By interactivity I assume you mean trashcans you can kick over and the like. It would be nice if you could do stuff like that, but most of it is just wrapping. Before too long you don't even notice it. Then there's the stuff like picking up trashcans and using them as weaponry. I wish there was some of that, and I actualy do intend to do something about it if it is possible. : I can see how people who are new to console-style games would dig Oni, but : anyone else who digs 2-d or 3-d fighters... I don't see the appeal. : ; : You can't even pull yourself onto crates! Wtf is with that?? And some mouse : sensitivity settings please?? Gaw? There's a rather large chunk missing to that argument. Namely that pulling yourself onto crates should be the first thing you should be able to do: it isn't. I didn't mind the mouse sensitivity, but I hope they add more to the options(including mouse sensitivity) for the final game, just because there should be more options.

Ye olde list of complaints	Zyrxil	1/4/01 5:08 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Jesse	1/4/01 5:17 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Zyrxil	1/4/01 5:20 p.m.
Asking us to debate *opinions*?	Michael Spencer	1/4/01 5:57 p.m.
nah, he's looking for birds of feather...	Rakki	1/4/01 5:23 p.m.
Re: Asking us to debate *opinions*?	Zyrxil	1/4/01 5:24 p.m.
Re: Asking us to debate *opinions*?	Nijhazer	1/4/01 5:40 p.m.
Re: Asking us to debate *opinions*?	Lemon-Tea	1/4/01 6:01 p.m.
Re: Asking us to debate *opinions*?	Zyrxil	1/4/01 8:13 p.m.
Re: Asking us to debate *opinions*?	Lemon-Tea	1/4/01 8:18 p.m.
Oops...sorry, Jesse...	Michael Spencer	1/4/01 7:21 p.m.
Re: Oops...sorry, Jesse...	Jesse	1/4/01 10:01 p.m.
Re: Oops...sorry, Jesse...	Michael Spencer	1/4/01 10:21 p.m.
Re: Asking us to debate *opinions*?	BananaFish	1/6/01 12:30 a.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	aneep	1/4/01 5:26 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Zyrxil	1/4/01 5:43 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Zyrxil	1/4/01 5:44 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	aneep	1/4/01 6:03 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	DanPerkins	1/4/01 5:30 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Lokus	1/4/01 7:21 p.m.
Re: Architecture	Twrch	1/4/01 7:59 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Otokam	1/4/01 7:22 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Dan Rudolph	1/5/01 1:21 a.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Harry	1/5/01 2:24 a.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Jesse	1/4/01 11:11 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	aneep	1/5/01 5:24 p.m.
Re: Ye olde list of complaints	Dan Rudolph	1/5/01 2:01 a.m.