HBOHBO Forum
glyphstrip  
Halo.bungie.org
glyphstrip
Frequently Asked Forum Questions
 Search the HBO News Archives

Any All Exact 
Search the Halo Updates DBs

BWU Halo Halo2 
Search Older Posts on This Forum:
Posts on Current Forum | Archived Posts

View Thread Reply Return to Index Set Prefs Previous Next
On the portrayal of SPARTANs
By:Archilen
Date: 12/11/14 4:48 am
In Response To: Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked.... (Revenant1988)

: The Spartan II's, for better or worse, we're able to say a lot by essentially
: not saying much of anything at all. It was through their actions that they
: were defined, and THAT, is why for fans such as myself, made them special.

I think the problem lies in how most writers other than Nylund see the SPARTAN-IIs and also IIIs to an extent. See, Nylund didn't think the Spartan II project was the right thing to do, morality-wise. But he put all that aside and embraced, even celebrated, the SPARTANs as the people they are, not what they ought to be by the fairly narrow social standards of ordinary people. On the other hand, most other writers just can't get over how absolutely and completely terrible and condemnable the Spartan program was and how broken the Spartans are.

Unlike Nylund, other writers constantly emphasize the contrast between Spartans and normal people not to highlight how the Spartans are something above and beyond what any human could hope to be, but to pity and lament how humanity has been robbed from them. Often they'll just make their Spartan characters rebellious against the whole system (see: The Cole Protocol, Halo Legends, the Traviss books, some of the comics, etc.), despite this kind of behavior never being shown in Nylund's work. Or they simply write the SPARTAN-IIs as if they were normal people, which is completely missing the point of why people like them.

Nylund was able to recognize that despite all the horrible things they had to go through, emotional brokenness wasn't the defining trait of a SPARTAN. They were still people and socialized with each other, despite being detached from mainstream humanity. They were different, not broken, and their interactions among themselves show this. Nylund's SPARTANs weren't uncomfortable being what they were; they enjoyed the ability to live up to their fullest potential, a chance they never would have gotten in an ordinary life.

As an example to illustrate this attitude, in Glasslands, Karen Traviss thinks naming the Onyx shield world in honor of Kurt's pre-SPARTAN surname is the right thing to do. I'm fairly certain Nylund would've gone with "Ambrose", since that's what the few people close to him would remember -- and honor -- him as. Using an identity that had been long forgotten and buried in some archive, the name of a person that hadn't existed for a long time, as he had become something greater than he ever could've under that name, would actually be doing a disservice to Kurt's memory.

I guess you could describe the S-IIs as the ultimate nerd heroes, which goes back to the topic of the gulf between them and the Fours. Why is that? They socialize well only within their own, very narrow peer group and feel detached from most people. They're smart and educated and can do things like casually calculate the velocity of a pin dropping. The gym scene in The Fall of Reach is like classic nerd wish fulfillment: John, who's still a kid, is harassed by a bunch of grown-up schoolyard bullies and then proceeds to absolutely wreck them. Can you see where this is going when most of the SPARTAN-IVs are apparently modeled after your average high school jock?

The SPARTANs are special because they aren't your average war movie special forces operators. Writers should understand this and get over their (admittedly understandable) discomfort about how they were made, because SPARTANs (inter)acting like SPARTANs in and out of the battlefield not just with "normal people" but with each other is fertile ground for good science fiction.


Messages In This Thread

One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageRevenant198812/2/14 1:03 pm
     I nearly criedThe BS Police12/2/14 1:28 pm
           Re: Right?Hyokin12/2/14 1:32 pm
                 Why do people keep saying this?FugitiveSoldier12/3/14 11:16 am
           Re: I nearly criedRevenant198812/2/14 1:39 pm
                 Re: I nearly criedGrizzlei12/2/14 1:55 pm
           WeightCody Miller12/2/14 9:08 pm
                 Re: WeightAzo 'Galvat12/2/14 10:43 pm
           What is that monstrosity? *NM*R4112/3/14 10:19 am
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageyakaman12/2/14 1:50 pm
     Submachine GunGrizzlei12/2/14 1:57 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageLostSpartan98712/2/14 1:59 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 2:20 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagegamerguy200212/2/14 3:40 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 4:39 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagegamerguy200212/2/14 4:56 pm
                             Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 7:25 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagethebruce012/2/14 5:25 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/2/14 2:14 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 4:31 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/3/14 2:47 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/3/14 3:25 pm
     The fuck did they do to the shield sounds? *NM*General Vagueness12/2/14 2:42 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageTDSpiral12/2/14 3:15 pm
     "Prophet's Bane?"Azo 'Galvat12/2/14 4:03 pm
           Re: "Prophet's Bane?"Revenant198812/2/14 4:13 pm
                 Re: "Prophet's Bane?"TDSpiral12/2/14 4:46 pm
                       Re: "Prophet's Bane?"Azo 'Galvat12/2/14 7:40 pm
                       Re: "Prophet's Bane?"Frankie12/3/14 1:46 pm
                             Re: "Prophet's Bane?"Hyokin12/3/14 3:32 pm
                                   Re: "Prophet's Bane?"The BS Police12/3/14 5:25 pm
                                   Re: "Prophet's Bane?"gamerguy200212/3/14 10:56 pm
     Looks like Halo *NM*ArteenEsben12/2/14 6:00 pm
     Let's help 343 guys!!!Chris101b12/2/14 6:06 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageIbeechu12/2/14 6:33 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagePhoenix_928612/2/14 6:37 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGrizzlei12/2/14 7:49 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageFrankie12/3/14 1:05 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageMacGyver1012/3/14 1:08 pm
                             Re: Ha!Hyokin12/3/14 1:37 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageIbeechu12/3/14 3:01 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageLouis Wu12/3/14 9:01 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/2/14 8:54 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageJironimo12/3/14 12:38 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/3/14 2:35 pm
     Watched three games...Phoenix_928612/2/14 6:35 pm
           Re: Watched three games...Cody Miller12/2/14 9:05 pm
                 Re: Watched three games...Chris101b12/2/14 10:32 pm
                       Re: Watched three games...Cody Miller12/3/14 3:49 am
                             Re: Watched three games...uberfoop12/3/14 4:08 am
                             Re: Watched three games...Chris101b12/3/14 5:05 am
           Re: Watched three games...thebruce012/3/14 10:58 am
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageMasterz133712/2/14 11:03 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagegamerguy200212/2/14 11:23 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageAvateur12/2/14 11:24 pm
     I actually like the idea of talking Spartans...RC Master12/3/14 5:13 pm
           Re: I actually like the idea of talking Spartans..Dervish12/3/14 6:52 pm
     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGravemind12/5/14 3:44 am
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageHyokin12/5/14 12:18 pm
           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/7/14 5:02 pm
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageThe BS Police12/7/14 5:39 pm
                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/8/14 9:06 pm
                             Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagethebruce012/9/14 10:24 am
                                   Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/9/14 3:33 pm
                                         Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/9/14 4:28 pm
                                               Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagethebruce012/10/14 9:36 am
                                                     Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/10/14 1:43 pm
                                                           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footagethebruce012/10/14 2:42 pm
                                                           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageIbeechu12/10/14 4:18 pm
                                                                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageCody Miller12/10/14 6:22 pm
                                                                       You're reaching. Desperately. *NM*thebruce012/10/14 7:16 pm
                                                                             Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Avateur12/10/14 8:50 pm
                                                                                   Re: You're reaching. Desperately.thebruce012/11/14 9:54 am
                                                                                         Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Avateur12/11/14 7:46 pm
                                                                                               Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Cody Miller12/11/14 11:52 pm
                                                                                                     Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Avateur12/12/14 12:01 am
                                                                                                           Re: You're reaching. Desperately.thebruce012/12/14 9:40 am
                                                                                                                 Re: You're reaching. Desperately.Avateur12/12/14 1:59 pm
                                                                                                                       Re: I don't know what to say any more *NM*thebruce012/12/14 2:32 pm
                                                                                                                             Checkmate *NM*Avateur12/12/14 5:42 pm
                                                                                                     Re: You're reaching. Desperately.thebruce012/12/14 9:40 am
                                                                       Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGeneral Vagueness12/12/14 2:36 am
                                                           Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/12/14 5:40 am
                                         Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageQuirel12/12/14 6:03 am
                 Re: One hour of Halo 5 (beta) MP footageGravemind12/8/14 4:25 pm
     So...what's up with that sword?...SEspider12/7/14 5:51 pm
           Re: So...what's up with that sword?...General Vagueness12/7/14 6:04 pm
                 Re: So...what's up with that sword?...SEspider12/11/14 3:42 am
           Re: So...what's up with that sword?...Littlebigman12/7/14 6:50 pm
                 Re: So...what's up with that sword?...Hyokin12/7/14 7:49 pm
                       Re: So...what's up with that sword?...GrimBrother One12/7/14 7:56 pm
                             Re: So...what's up with that sword?...Hyokin12/7/14 8:24 pm
                                   I wonder...Quirel12/8/14 1:47 am
                       Woops, you are correct! *NM* *NM*Littlebigman12/7/14 8:53 pm
     Dudebro?The Loot12/10/14 10:27 am
           Sarah Palmer was dudebrockamp12/10/14 11:01 am
                 Re: Sarah Palmer was dudebrocar1512/10/14 1:41 pm
                 Re: Sarah Palmer was dudebroIbeechu12/10/14 4:00 pm
                       Re: Sarah Palmer was dudebrogamerguy200212/10/14 5:11 pm
                             Note to self: don't type while hacking up mucus :( *NM*gamerguy200212/10/14 5:19 pm
           "Meet A Dudebrahman."Morpheus12/10/14 11:20 am
           Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Revenant198812/10/14 11:40 am
                 Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....General Vagueness12/10/14 1:10 pm
                       Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Revenant198812/10/14 1:20 pm
                       Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Chewbaccawakka12/10/14 1:23 pm
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....thebruce012/10/14 2:56 pm
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Postmortem12/11/14 1:15 am
                                   Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....The Lionheart12/12/14 9:29 am
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....The Lionheart12/12/14 9:27 am
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Jaydee12/12/14 12:05 pm
                       Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....Ibeechu12/10/14 4:09 pm
                             Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....General Vagueness12/12/14 2:13 am
                 Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....serpx12/10/14 2:57 pm
                 On the portrayal of SPARTANsArchilen12/11/14 4:48 am
                       Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/11/14 10:01 am
                             Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsRevenant198812/11/14 10:44 am
                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/11/14 11:29 am
                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsQuirel12/12/14 4:59 pm
                                         Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsArchilen12/15/14 6:55 am
                                               Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/15/14 11:16 am
                                                     Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsQuirel12/15/14 3:38 pm
                                                           Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/15/14 7:48 pm
                                                                 Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsQuirel12/18/14 5:05 am
                                                                       Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/18/14 10:04 am
                                                                             Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsmc_leprechaun12/19/14 4:23 am
                                                                                   Re: Trek replicator - 'Armor, Mjolnir, Mark IV'thebruce012/19/14 9:44 am
                                                                                         Re: Trek replicator - 'Armor, Mjolnir, Mark IV'mc_leprechaun12/22/14 5:51 am
                                                                                         Re: Trek replicator - 'Armor, Mjolnir, Mark IV'Quirel12/23/14 3:15 pm
                                                                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANstadboz12/22/14 5:24 pm
                             Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsArchilen12/11/14 12:54 pm
                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsthebruce012/11/14 3:06 pm
                       Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANs *IMG*The Lionheart12/12/14 12:01 am
                       Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsGeneral Vagueness12/12/14 2:47 am
                             Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsArchilen12/12/14 8:24 am
                                   Re: On the portrayal of SPARTANsJaydee12/12/14 11:58 am
                 Re: Dudebro? Well, since you asked....The Lionheart12/11/14 11:17 pm
           Re: Dudebro?hunt3r12/11/14 1:45 am
           Cultural Imperialismscarab12/17/14 5:57 pm
                 Re: Cultural Imperialismzofinda12/17/14 7:42 pm
                       Re: Cultural Imperialismzofinda12/17/14 7:42 pm
                 Re: Cultural ImperialismRevenant198812/18/14 9:00 am
                       Re: Cultural Imperialismscarab12/18/14 10:03 am
                             Re: Cultural Imperialismthebruce012/18/14 10:06 am
                             Re: Cultural ImperialismRevenant198812/18/14 10:30 am
                                   Re: Cultural ImperialismQuirel12/18/14 3:46 pm
                 Re: Cultural Imperialismpadraig0812/18/14 10:34 am
                       Localize S4 behaviourscarab12/18/14 3:04 pm
                             Re: Localize S4 behaviourGeneral Vagueness12/18/14 4:05 pm
                 There's got to be a better word for this.Quirel12/18/14 3:56 pm
                       Re: There's got to be a better word for this.scarab12/18/14 6:30 pm
                             Re: There's got to be a better word for this.Quirel12/19/14 4:29 am
                                   Re: There's got to be a better word for this.scarab12/19/14 7:41 am
                                         Re: There's got to be a better word for this.Quirel12/20/14 3:16 pm
                                         Re: There's got to be a better word for this.General Vagueness12/20/14 4:00 pm
                                               Re: There's got to be a better word for this.General Vagueness12/20/14 4:25 pm
                             Re: There's got to be a better word for this.General Vagueness12/20/14 3:41 pm

Sign up to post.

You will only be able to post to the forum if you first create a user profile.
If, however, you already have a user profile, please follow the "Set Preferences" link on the main index page and enter your user name to log in to post.