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Re: This question has been misframed.
By:thebruce0
Date: 6/12/13 8:51 pm
In Response To: This question has been misframed. (Leisandir)

: We acknowledge that most people will not be functionally impaired by most of
: the features the new XBOX will introduce. What those features represent,
: though, is insulting to gamers. All of us.

: The constant internet connection has useful elements, like the ability to
: keep your games up-to-date when you're not playing. That's a useful
: feature, but only if the user can control it - every PC gamer on this
: forum has had the experience of Steam trying to update something while
: you're in the middle of something like a game of League or streaming a
: movie. The problem, though, is that because that feature is mandatory and
: not a user-controlled setting, it is no longer "Hey, this thing is
: useful to you," it's "We're concerned you might be doing
: something in breach of the EULA, and we'd really like to make sure you
: don't do that."

First, you can't say that until we know the details of what this once-per-24hour connection does.
Second, Apple is moving this way too with seamless background app updates.
Third, who says updates'll necessarily interrupt anything important?

For all we know there may still be an option to disable auto-updates. Choice is nice to have. But I can see how enforcing updates can be beneficial. Perhaps this is MS's past experience coming through in regards to IE6, which they now tell people not to use, and rightly so, but can't force people to upgrade for their own good. *shrug*
Point being, there's no basis to presume this is all exclusively about unfair EULA rules, or inherently and necessarily bad user experience. All we know is what they've told us, so if you presume anything malicious from that, you're not doing anyone any favours.

Confirmed details are more respectable than presuming and ranting over impressions and reputation.

: What it says is the same thing that EA's absurd DRM on Mass Effect 3 says. It
: says the user is bad and not to be trusted.

Is every user good and 100% trustworthy? It's a matter of perspective. Every decision would be unfavorable to someone. I guarantee you EA does not universally distrust every user, nor presume every user is bad and untrustable.

: It says that a marginally
: effective anti-theft system is important enough to impede the experience
: of 100% of valid users. It says "Oh, sorry, our servers are down so
: you can't use this technology you've purchased."

The drawbacks to whatever they implement are certainly clear. And it hurts them because of the negative feedback. But to presume they want to screw their customers over is just wrong. Like any company, they want to both make money, and keep their customers happy. Finding the middle ground without making blanket presumptions about their entire client base is not an easy process. That's why it's a risky business trying something new.

: Steam is fine because it's a service within the platform, and one with a
: pretty effective offline mode. If I couldn't access my PC when Steam said
: "no" or the internet was down, nobody would use it.

Steam is a software service running on hardware. XBO is "Steam"&Hardware. If Steam were the PC's OS, then there may be more concern. We use PCs for much more though, so its use goes far beyond Steam. But XBO is Steam; it's Steam in console form, if you will. With the added benefit of using disc-based media.

Maybe Steam should release a gaming console, then we'd have a better competitive comparison :P


Messages In This Thread

Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Hyokin6/6/13 6:38 pm
     Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Grizzlei6/6/13 6:40 pm
           What if your communist neighbor makes a tsunami?! *NM*Hyokin6/6/13 6:52 pm
           I love the way that they're spinning this.Grizzlei6/6/13 6:54 pm
           Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Kal6/6/13 7:45 pm
     Guess deployed soldiers will play the PS4 insteadkornman006/6/13 7:09 pm
     Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Devil Mingy6/6/13 7:14 pm
     Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Ragashingo6/6/13 7:20 pm
           Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Gravemind6/6/13 8:01 pm
                 Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Cody Miller6/6/13 9:09 pm
                       Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*hunt3r6/7/13 2:42 am
                             Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Cody Miller6/7/13 2:33 pm
                       Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*RC Master6/7/13 5:56 am
                             Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*thebruce06/7/13 9:14 am
                 More about PS4 online requirements.Gravemind6/7/13 1:27 pm
     Bad implications for the XBO's future prospects.Gravemind6/6/13 7:31 pm
           Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONERevenant19886/6/13 8:01 pm
                 erp- Missed a formatting tag in der. Sorry! *NM*Revenant19886/6/13 8:05 pm
                 Re: Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONEsnakegriffin6/6/13 8:57 pm
                 Re: Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONELeisandir6/6/13 11:47 pm
                       Re: Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONEDevil Mingy6/6/13 11:58 pm
                             Re: Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONEBry6/7/13 3:27 pm
                       Re: Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONEthebruce06/7/13 9:19 am
                       Re: Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONERevenant19886/7/13 12:08 pm
                             Re: Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONELeisandir6/7/13 1:55 pm
                 Re: Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONESonofMacPhisto6/7/13 8:43 am
                       Re: Chances are if they can afford to buy an XBONERevenant19886/7/13 9:11 am
                             Try Paddy-Cycling your modem *NM*padraig086/7/13 11:20 am
                 If I was in chargepadraig086/7/13 11:24 am
                       Re: If I was in chargeRC Master6/7/13 11:28 am
                             Re: If I was in chargepadraig086/7/13 1:14 pm
                                   Re: If I was in chargeRagashingo6/7/13 1:24 pm
           Yep.Ragashingo6/6/13 8:50 pm
                 Re: Yep.Cody Miller6/6/13 9:12 pm
                 Re: Yep.Gravemind6/7/13 1:41 am
           My thoughts.Captain Spark6/7/13 9:36 am
     Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Jaydee6/6/13 10:20 pm
           Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Devil Mingy6/6/13 10:25 pm
     That has got to be one of the dumbest...SEspider6/6/13 11:08 pm
           Exactly their pointZackDark6/6/13 11:21 pm
                 But it's all about sales right?breitzen6/7/13 12:17 am
                       It's a gamble *NM*ZackDark6/7/13 9:13 am
                             Re: It's a gamblethebruce06/7/13 9:25 am
     What they really need to do.uberfoop6/7/13 12:01 am
           Shit. I forgot about that.Gravemind6/7/13 1:49 am
                 Re: Shit. I forgot about that.thebruce06/7/13 9:32 am
     Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*Azo 'Galvat6/7/13 12:39 am
     Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*serpx6/7/13 12:43 am
     Unless the net-requirement changes, no more Xbox.Leviathan6/7/13 2:18 am
           Re: Unless the net-requirement changes, no more XbSonofMacPhisto6/7/13 8:45 am
     saw this coming...hunt3r6/7/13 2:44 am
     Hey guys who thought the naysayers jumped the gunPkmnrulz2406/7/13 4:45 am
     The view from that ivory tower...RC Master6/7/13 6:59 am
           Thank you for the -perfect- setupBry6/7/13 3:33 pm
                 Damn!Gravemind6/7/13 11:09 pm
           Mmm Ivory Tower... *NM*snakegriffin6/7/13 5:42 pm
     Re: Microsoft Clarifies "Always On" Policy *OT*CaneCutter6/7/13 9:30 am
     You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGChrisTheeCrappy6/7/13 9:44 am
           Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGCaptain Spark6/7/13 10:23 am
                 Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGChrisTheeCrappy6/7/13 11:33 am
                       Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGserpx6/7/13 1:49 pm
                             Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGChrisTheeCrappy6/7/13 2:43 pm
                       Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGCaptain Spark6/8/13 10:17 am
           Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGDEEP NNN6/7/13 11:21 am
                 Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGChrisTheeCrappy6/7/13 11:36 am
                       Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGDEEP NNN6/7/13 11:47 am
                             Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGChrisTheeCrappy6/7/13 12:51 pm
                                   Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGCody Miller6/7/13 2:32 pm
                                         Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGChrisTheeCrappy6/7/13 2:44 pm
                       Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGRC Master6/7/13 1:20 pm
           Re: You are all forgetting one IMPORTANT THINGthebruce06/7/13 11:23 am
           Relevant law for those interested.Gravemind6/7/13 2:53 pm
                 Re: Relevant law for those interested.ChrisTheeCrappy6/7/13 3:13 pm
     In all honesty...padraig086/7/13 2:41 pm
           Re: In all honesty...Cody Miller6/7/13 2:46 pm
                 Re: In all honesty...Grizzlei6/7/13 2:56 pm
                       Re: In all honesty...ChrisTheeCrappy6/7/13 5:53 pm
                             Re: In all honesty...Grizzlei6/7/13 6:02 pm
                                   Re: In all honesty...SonofMacPhisto6/7/13 6:16 pm
                                         Re: In all honesty...Grizzlei6/7/13 6:31 pm
                                               Re: In all honesty...SonofMacPhisto6/7/13 7:03 pm
                                         Re: In all honesty...Revenant19886/7/13 6:36 pm
                 for you, sure.padraig086/7/13 3:40 pm
                       Re: for you, sure.Cody Miller6/7/13 4:30 pm
                             Re: for you, sure.padraig086/7/13 4:33 pm
                 Re: In all honesty...Ragashingo6/7/13 7:14 pm
                 Re: In all honesty...Chris101b6/8/13 1:24 am
     Did I win Thread of the Week? *NM*Hyokin6/7/13 4:08 pm
           The Cody Miller "all for teh lulz" awardpadraig086/7/13 4:12 pm
     Adding to the Xbox One fireserpx6/8/13 1:32 pm
     Re: Bungie clarifies always on policypete_the_duck6/8/13 3:03 pm
           MMOs & Online MP ≠ Single-player gamesGravemind6/8/13 4:47 pm
           Re: Bungie clarifies always on policySEspider6/8/13 10:54 pm
           Re: Bungie clarifies always on policyAzo 'Galvat6/8/13 11:08 pm
                 Re: Bungie clarifies always on policypete_the_duck6/9/13 12:42 am
                       Destiny is not a single player game. Makes me sad.rhubarb6/9/13 12:48 am
                             there isn't a single player component?hunt3r6/9/13 3:10 am
                                   Re: there isn't a single player component?uberfoop6/9/13 3:17 am
                                   Re: there isn't a single player component?RC Master6/9/13 5:33 am
                                         Re: there isn't a single player component?RC Master6/9/13 5:37 am
                       Re: Bungie clarifies always on policyuberfoop6/9/13 2:53 am
                       Re: Bungie clarifies always on policySEspider6/9/13 3:00 am
                       Re: Bungie clarifies always on policyThe Loot6/9/13 5:59 pm
           Re: Bungie clarifies always on policyKalamari6/9/13 12:47 am
           We already knew thisAvateur6/9/13 12:52 pm
                 Re: We already knew thisGrimBrother One6/9/13 1:06 pm
                 Re: We already knew thisDEEP NNN6/9/13 1:11 pm
                       SelfishRC Master6/9/13 1:22 pm
                             Re: SelfishDEEP NNN6/9/13 1:31 pm
                                   Re: SelfishAvateur6/9/13 2:16 pm
                                         Re: Selfishthebruce06/10/13 12:04 pm
                                               Re: SelfishSonofMacPhisto6/10/13 12:18 pm
                                                     Re: Selfishthebruce06/10/13 1:25 pm
                                                           Re: SelfishSonofMacPhisto6/10/13 1:37 pm
                                                                 Re: Selfishthebruce06/10/13 1:48 pm
                                                           Re: SelfishAvateur6/10/13 6:18 pm
                                                                 Re: Selfishthebruce06/10/13 7:14 pm
                                                                       Re: SelfishAvateur6/11/13 1:07 am
                                                                             Re: SelfishSonofMacPhisto6/11/13 8:28 am
                                   Re: SelfishSonofMacPhisto6/9/13 2:20 pm
                                         Re: SelfishDEEP NNN6/9/13 3:38 pm
                                               Re: SelfishSonofMacPhisto6/9/13 4:51 pm
                                                     Re: SelfishQuirel6/9/13 7:32 pm
                                                           Re: SelfishSonofMacPhisto6/10/13 8:43 am
                                               What are you not getting?Avateur6/9/13 5:36 pm
                                                     Re: What are you not getting?SonofMacPhisto6/9/13 5:41 pm
                                                     Re: What are you not getting?DEEP NNN6/9/13 6:10 pm
                                                           Again, what are you not getting about this?Avateur6/9/13 6:20 pm
                                                                 Re: Again, what are you not getting about this?SonofMacPhisto6/9/13 6:28 pm
                                                                 Re: Again, what are you not getting about this?DEEP NNN6/9/13 6:39 pm
                                                                       Re: Again, what are you not getting about this?Avateur6/9/13 7:11 pm
                                                                 Re: Again, what are you not getting about this?RC Master6/9/13 7:34 pm
                                                                       Re: Again, what are you not getting about this?DEEP NNN6/9/13 7:56 pm
                                                                             No, they're right. Your analogy sucks.uberfoop6/9/13 8:18 pm
                                                                                   Re: No, they're right. Your analogy sucks.DEEP NNN6/9/13 8:45 pm
                                                                                         Re: No, they're right. Your analogy sucks.Kalamari6/9/13 10:45 pm
                                                                                         Re: No, they're right. Your analogy sucks.uberfoop6/9/13 11:35 pm
                                               Re: SelfishRC Master6/9/13 5:42 pm
                                                     Re: SelfishDEEP NNN6/9/13 6:30 pm
                                                     I like this post very much. *NM*SonofMacPhisto6/9/13 6:31 pm
                             You've missed his point pretty spectacularly I feeMoorpheusl96/10/13 8:11 am
                                   Re: You've missed his point pretty spectacularly ISonofMacPhisto6/10/13 8:34 am
                                         fix'dSonofMacPhisto6/10/13 8:36 am
                                         Re: You've missed his point pretty spectacularly IMoorpheusl96/10/13 4:18 pm
                                               Re: You've missed his point pretty spectacularly ISonofMacPhisto6/10/13 4:33 pm
                                               ThanksDEEP NNN6/10/13 6:42 pm
                 Re: We already knew thisSonofMacPhisto6/9/13 2:13 pm
                       Re: We already knew thisAvateur6/9/13 2:18 pm
                             Re: We already knew thisSonofMacPhisto6/9/13 2:21 pm
     Well, Sony just won the eight generation.Gravemind6/10/13 11:41 pm
           One downside though.Gravemind6/11/13 12:14 am
                 It's $50 a year, actually...munky-0586/11/13 12:33 am
                       Re: It's $50 a year, actually...Gravemind6/11/13 2:17 am
                 BOMB! BOOM! fizzle...uberfoop6/11/13 1:13 am
                       Re: BOMB! BOOM! fizzle...Gravemind6/11/13 2:32 am
           Re: Well, Sony just won the eight generation.Cody Miller6/11/13 1:07 am
                 Re: Well, Sony just won the eight generation.Avateur6/11/13 1:09 am
                 Re: Well, Sony just won the eight generation.Bry6/11/13 4:40 am
                       Re: Well, Sony just won the eight generation.uberfoop6/11/13 5:26 am
           Sony won this battleAzo 'Galvat6/11/13 3:27 am
                 Remember Rob StarkCody Miller6/11/13 10:34 am
                       Re: Remember Rob StarkJoe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)6/11/13 10:38 am
                       Re: Remember Rob StarkKal6/11/13 10:40 am
                             Re: Remember Rob StarkCody Miller6/11/13 10:48 am
                                   Re: Remember Rob StarkKal6/11/13 10:53 am
                       Re: Remember Rob Starkmunky-0586/11/13 7:39 pm
           Is Microsoft even playing?Kal6/11/13 9:27 am
                 I'd have to agree with you there...SEspider6/11/13 10:10 am
                       Re: I'd have to agree with you there...Kal6/11/13 10:39 am
                             Re: I'd have to agree with you there...thebruce06/11/13 10:51 am
                             Re: I'd have to agree with you there...SEspider6/11/13 12:00 pm
                                   Microsoft has done this beforeKal6/11/13 12:21 pm
                                         This. *NM*thebruce06/11/13 1:07 pm
                                         Microsoft is now Apple, who woulda thunk itdavidfuchs6/11/13 1:44 pm
                                               Re: Microsoft is now Apple, who woulda thunk itKal6/11/13 5:54 pm
                                         Re: Microsoft has done this beforeLeviathan6/11/13 1:50 pm
                                               Re: Microsoft has done this beforeKal6/11/13 2:04 pm
                                                     Re: Microsoft has done this beforeSEspider6/12/13 3:18 pm
                                                           Re: Microsoft has done this beforeuberfoop6/12/13 3:45 pm
                                                           Re: Microsoft has done this beforeKal6/12/13 4:00 pm
                                                                 This *NM*thebruce06/12/13 6:27 pm
                                         Re: Microsoft has done this beforeDEEP NNN6/11/13 4:39 pm
                                               Not Really...SEspider6/12/13 3:24 pm
                             Re: I'd have to agree with you there...Devil Mingy6/11/13 12:24 pm
                             Re: I'd have to agree with you there...Bry6/12/13 4:05 am
                                   Re: I'd have to agree with you there...uberfoop6/12/13 4:22 am
                       Re: I'd have to agree with you there...thebruce06/11/13 10:48 am
                             Re: I'd have to agree with you there...SEspider6/11/13 11:25 am
     Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*uberfoop6/11/13 7:56 pm
           Bwahahaha!Quirel6/11/13 8:09 pm
                 That's why I link to the GAF thread! *NM*uberfoop6/11/13 8:10 pm
           Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*DHalo6/11/13 8:44 pm
                 Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*uberfoop6/11/13 8:50 pm
                 Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*Avateur6/11/13 9:01 pm
                       Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*DHalo6/12/13 12:24 am
                             Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*Avateur6/12/13 12:34 am
                             Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*Cody Miller6/12/13 12:37 am
                                   Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*DHalo6/12/13 12:54 am
                                         Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*Simpsons Rule6/12/13 11:24 am
                                               Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*DHalo6/12/13 11:35 am
                                                     You and I would get along really well lol. *NM*GrimBrother One6/12/13 11:53 am
           Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*Captain Spark6/11/13 8:56 pm
           Way to pour salt in your own wound, Donny.Gravemind6/11/13 9:23 pm
           Totally called it *NM*ZackDark6/11/13 9:52 pm
           InexplicableSchooly D6/11/13 9:55 pm
                 Re: InexplicableKP6/12/13 12:18 am
                 Re: InexplicableBry6/12/13 4:10 am
                 Re: Inexplicablethebruce06/12/13 10:37 am
           To be fair...padraig086/12/13 9:10 am
                 PS4 controller still sucks *NM*pete_the_duck6/12/13 9:53 am
                       This I agree withBry6/12/13 10:21 am
                             Re: This I agree withRevenant19886/12/13 10:29 am
                                   I want this so bad *NM*padraig086/12/13 10:40 am
                       This. Xbox controller is intuitive.thebruce06/12/13 10:45 am
           At least no leaks came out before E3, right? *NM* *NM*UnrealCh13f6/12/13 3:19 pm
           Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*Moorpheusl96/12/13 4:17 pm
                 Re: Microsoft is on a roll. *OT*thebruce06/12/13 6:23 pm
                       This question has been misframed.Leisandir6/12/13 7:37 pm
                             Re: This question has been misframed.thebruce06/12/13 8:51 pm
                                   Re: This question has been misframed.SEspider6/12/13 11:29 pm
                                         Re: This question has been misframed.thebruce06/13/13 9:34 am
                                               Re: This question has been misframed.Leisandir6/13/13 10:23 am
                                                     Re: This question has been misframed.thebruce06/13/13 1:32 pm
                                   Re: This question has been misframed.Leisandir6/12/13 11:47 pm
                                         Re: This question has been misframed.pete_the_duck6/13/13 12:15 am
                                               Re: This question has been misframed.Leviathan6/13/13 1:28 am
                                                     Re: This question has been misframed.thebruce06/13/13 9:41 am
                                                           Re: This question has been misframed.Leviathan6/13/13 1:45 pm
                                                                 Re: This question has been misframed.thebruce06/13/13 2:20 pm
                                                                       Re: This question has been misframed.Leviathan6/13/13 2:44 pm
                                                                             Re: This question has been misframed.thebruce06/13/13 4:09 pm
                                                     Re: This question has been misframed.DHalo6/13/13 11:10 am
                                                           Re: This question has been misframed.Leisandir6/13/13 12:48 pm
                                                                 Re: This question has been misframed.DHalo6/13/13 2:45 pm
                                               Re: This question has been misframed.Quirel6/13/13 1:33 am
                                                     Re: This question has been misframed.pete_the_duck6/13/13 5:43 pm
                                                           Re: This question has been misframed.Avateur6/13/13 9:14 pm
                                                           I'm detecting a Hitler-metaphor inbound.Leviathan6/14/13 12:34 am
                                                                 Papiere, bitte?Quirel6/14/13 1:42 am
                                                                 Re: I'm detecting a Hitler-metaphor inbound.thebruce06/14/13 11:35 am
                                                           Re: This question has been misframed.Quirel6/14/13 1:40 am
                                                                 Re: This question has been misframed.Avateur6/14/13 12:54 pm
                                         Well, vote with your wallet. :Pthebruce06/13/13 9:54 am
                                               Re: Well, vote with your wallet. :PLeisandir6/13/13 10:30 am
                                                     Re: Well, vote with your wallet. :PDHalo6/13/13 11:13 am
                                                           Re: Well, vote with your wallet. :PLeisandir6/13/13 12:50 pm
                                                                 Re: Well, vote with your wallet. :PDHalo6/13/13 2:46 pm
                                                                       Re: Well, vote with your wallet. :Pthebruce06/13/13 4:12 pm
                                                     Re: Well, vote with your wallet. :Pthebruce06/13/13 1:38 pm
                                                           Re: Well, vote with your wallet. :PLeviathan6/13/13 1:55 pm
                                                                 Re: Well, vote with your wallet. :Pthebruce06/13/13 2:28 pm
     Are you happy, John?SEspider6/12/13 11:09 pm
           Actually, a little bit. :3 *NM*Hyokin6/13/13 12:24 am
                 now you know why Cody does it *NM*padraig086/13/13 11:28 am

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