:Everybody games.

Hmm. That would also be an ill-informed assumption wouldn't it?

My grandfather has internet- he doesn't game. He falls into 'everybody'.

:A lot of people are poor and/or live in areas where internet worth a dime isn't available, and to
: dismiss that population is both offensive and classist. It's easy to
: forget that the bulk of consumption of products is powered by those whose
: incomes aren't stellar; when you make enough, you put aside. When you
: don't make enough to do that, it's because every dollar you earn goes
: toward your home, your car, your dinner, and your free time.

^^I detect a lot of 'bleeding heart' up there.

:While it may not impact Microsoft's bottom line to wall themselves off from that
: population, it does say something very clear about the company and the
: things it believes about people. It displays a sentiment similar to that
: Abercrombie and Fitch CEO's thing about "poor people and ugly people
: shouldn't wear our clothes."

Disagree.

If a business wants to target a specific demographic, that's their prerogative. I read a story awhile back about a bakery that refused to sell a wedding cake to a lesbian couple- the backlash from the LBGT community was astronomical- but the support from non LBGT who agreed with the bakery owners decision was also astronomical. Are they limiting their customer pool? Absolutely.
But it's their choice, even if it not the most profitable one.*

Same thing with Abercrombie. I think their CEO is a jackass and I'm glad I turned down a job at their corporate HQ years ago because I didn't agree with their brand, message and culture.

But I support their right *to* that message. You know how I voice my opinion on them? I don't buy their product and vote with my wallet. I expect a lot of people to fully do so with MS in this case. We'll see what happens. It's still too early to know what will happen in the grand scheme of things, especially since Nintendo has no games to offer, and Sony hasn't revealed much themselves. For all we know, they could be (or would have been?) ready to unfurl the same banner the MS just did. Then what? Mass exodus to PC gaming?

(*Disclaimer: This it the most recent, relevant example that came to my mind. I have NO desire to debate anything related to the story above nor is it an opportunity for someone to segway the conversation in a nasty direction. It is simply an example, that is all.)

:Videogames are not a luxury product anymore.

Yes, they are.

You don't need videogames to live.

It's not mandated that you must have videogames in life to function. Videogames do not help me earn income, they spend it.

If I'm struggling financially, the first thing that goes is discretionary spending. Video gaming, would be one of the first things to go. Maybe I was fortunate to pay enough of my subscription ahead- great! I can still play online for a while. But gosh darn, thats gonna mean I need to be happy with the games I already have because I don't have the funds to buy new ones for now. If by the time my online gaming subscription expires and I am still in financial struggle, I don't renew it.

I also never had cable TV growing up. I still don't have it now. It too, is a luxury item. I don't need it to survive. My girlfriend pays for it on her TV though. You can bet your ass if we were in financial hardships I'd shut that service off in a heartbeat.

:You can get a capable gaming laptop for $800, and that'll last you. Something like Steam gives you :quick access to cheap and often free games to keep you busy.

Steam is great. I love what they do. It's true that PC gamers enjoy a degree of freedom that console gamers don't. Not everyone wants to PC game though. Some like having a separate console experience from it. This subject has been beaten to death over the internet, there is no need to get into it here. It a matter of preference. People go to the platform that has the games they want to play, that has the majority of their friends, that best meets their needs, that they can afford.

: The problem isn't "it's impossible to play!" The problem is "I
: am now hassled to use this device I own and I gain nothing from it

I never said it wouldn't be a hassle for everyone. I clearly said in my personal experience, it won't adversely impact me. My current gaming habits, environment and lifestyle are not affected by any of whats been revealed so far (assuming its true, mind you).

I consider myself a pretty average gamer. Dare I say, I might even be turning into one of those filthy 'casual' gamers as I rarely have time to get on for more that a couple hours once or twice a week. The chances of my internet being down during one of those windows is pretty low. And if it is? Well I guess I'll have to find something else to do. Getting mad about it won't be one of those things.

: ." It's a problem that shouldn't exist, because it's a feature which
: does not add to the experience; like with Sim City, whatever their PR
: people say, it's a paranoid move to restrict access to the software
: they're licensing to you. DRM and systems with similar goals negatively
: impact the honest user and do little or nothing to impede the pirate.

I agree wholeheartedly that the industry needs to work on going after the real offenders and that their current DRM models are ineffectual and actually hurt the people they want to protect.

: All this talk about the console being tailored for social games . . . .

: Alright, here's the deal. If you have a platform on which to run your game
: and access to the internet, you the developer have all of the tools you
: need to create any experience you damn well want. If your specific game
: requires an internet connection to play, as every multiplayer-only title
: does, then you have that covered without the platform requiring the
: connection when you're not playing. Include a tag on the box that says
: "internet connection required" and you're golden.

Yep. Agree.

:Forcing connectivity for singleplayer is without purpose.

Also agree. They want to stop pirates but they aren't very good at. Well, at least not yet.

: As for broadband connectivity - I pay a hundred dollars a month for cable
: internet and I get ~2mbps on a good day.

(not to sound like a jerk) Maybe you should explore your options. When is the last time you checked your area to see whats been added? (no need to answer me, just ask yourself)

: There's a reason that Twitter
: asshole got fired for his comments - there is a difference between having
: access to the internet, being able to afford it, and being able to afford
: or having access to anything that could be called "highspeed."
: My games lag when I get a phone call, and there's nothing I can do about
: it.

: As far as used games go, I dunno. I've been a PC gamer my entire life, so
: this issue's never really affected me that much. Steam has no sharing or
: gifting in its current form and that hasn't hurt me any; then again, Steam
: is more than the platform through which you play the games, it's also the
: store and community, and they frequently run excellent sales that I can't
: see Microsoft emulating.

Look, I respect your opinion on this. I really do. I know full well that everyone situation is different in its own way. For some, the changes MS wants to make will be great. For some it will be worse. For others like myself, it won't make a tangible difference.

I struggle with all these debates and discussions to label myself in one camp or the other. I find that I don't fit either category, I am that sliver in the middle of the venn diagram. Sometimes we get so worked up looking at the extremes of an issue that we don't see how big that 'middle' section is. I know I can't see it right now. But I hardly think I am the only one. It's like... I'm in a crowd surrounded by people that are just like me or very similar but I can't see them because a couple people turned out the lights in the room we're all in and those couple people each have megaphones and they're yelling at each other (and everyone else) to make decisions about things we can't even see all the way yet.

Can we just turn the lights on first and then go?

MS is smart enough to know when they are beat or made a mistake and make up for it. For example, with Windows 8 they are bringing back the 'start' button because there was enough a demand for it from the consumers. That same thing could happen here with DRM, always on, and whatever other thing people don't like here. EA did it with their games and passes. So by all means, be vocal, and voice your displeasure to them. The consumer has the power and should use it. I'm just pointing out that I can be vocal too and say that I'm not affected by this particular issue, and you will (the general, collective 'you') hear that from other people too.

For me, when the internet goes out, its usually storm related and then everything else is out anyway like electricity so I wouldn't be gaming even if I wanted to. And, maybe I get less upset when a network goes down because I understand why it goes down (my job) and I don't get upset about it. It happens. Part of life.

Leisandir:

So, I hope none of the above riles you up- that is not the intent. But I don't think I'm 'classist'... if you called me conservative or a hard ass I'd agree with you. But I don't think gaming is anything BUT a luxury. I think the gap between the connected and disconnected (or poorly connected) is improving all the time and won't be an issue forever. MS has the right to target whoever they want, even if we think they're stupid for how they do it. But again, maybe that's the reason the introduced their box as a multi-media center first- to make their product relevant for those like yourself who don't have the greatest internet but still watch movies and tv etc.

Wait and see I suppose.

I know I'm not going to be an early adopter for any console this generation. I think that, in itself, gives me perspective. If MS/SONY/NINTENDO make any mistakes, I'll have at least a year to sit back and watch them iron them out before I decide if I want any of their products at all :)

And, none of it will upset me or make me angry because I can't be fucked by a console I don't own :)

In the end, this kind of discussion is great! Sometimes ya gotta make people angry to see whats going to work and what won't. Talk is cheap. It needs to be actually implemented so people can destroy it if that is what needs to happen. If Microsoft succeeds in making it work or fails and has to apologize and revise it, it will be good news for gaming as a whole, as it drives progress forward.

The whole Ms.Frizzel "take chances, make mistakes, get messy!" Thing comes to my mind.