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Re: "Evolution" in sci-fi
Date: 6/1/13 5:52 am
In Response To: Re: "Evolution" in sci-fi (AndrewSS02)

Both are forgetting that any sufficient level of
technology above our own can be considered magic.

If Arthur C isn't rolling in his grave right now then he should be.

My brain hurts reading your wall of text. You need to break it down into more paragraphs. I'm going to make a stab at that myself...

While I don't think it's
that far advanced. To Express a level of intensity and further the
evolution of our species. It's not out of the question as to how it can be
done. It's in out genes. It's over years of evolution to make certain
genes come out.

There is room for improvements but people aren't taking issue with that. They are taking issue with the idea that there is an end goal for evolution, a final, best result - that there is a simple ladder, a linear scale that species can be placed on and that you could use this scale to say which species are more or less advanced.

People conflate evolution with improvement. They also think that better means more able: cleverer, stronger, faster.

But evolution is just something that happens and while natural selection can make a species more fit for its environment that improvement could be the result of a loss of capabilities. An example would be cave fish that have permanently fused eyelids. Their eyes are of no use to them because they live in permanent darkness and are only a source of problems because they can be damaged. We see many species of cave species that have lost the use of their eyes and we see various degrees of this. Some species have good eyes but fused eyelids. Some have list the lens or the muscles that control the lens.

Another example would be flightless birds. Most birds spend a lot of time foraging on the ground. Flight and the flight apparatus is expensive. Flight comes in handy when you need to escape predators or migrate long distances. Some island birds have lost the use of their wings because they were more of a hindrance than a benefit. They had no predators, they had no need to migrate. Those birds with wings had to devote energy to the flight structures, those with smaller wings could spend that energy on raising chicks. In an environment were flight is of little use then flight can be selected against.

The most extreme examples of the selection against 'advanced' features would be endoparasites or cells that have become partners with eukaryotes: chloroplasts, mitochondria, etc. Endoparasites are things like tapeworms or liverflukes; things that live inside our bodies.

We can determine the ancestry of many endoparasites and have found that many have relatives that are free living. The parasites lose many of the features that their relatives need for their external existence. The parasites have lost: sense organs, jaws and teeth, digestive tracts and limbs. They absorb food through their skin and let us provide a warm, nutrient rich, environment for them to live in.

Their biggest problem is reproduction. They need to infect new hosts. As a result tapeworms are just egg producing machines. They are just a hook studded mouth that trails a string of gonads. Yet they are well adapted to their environment.

Interesting fact: the closest relatives to human tapeworms are lion tapeworms. It looks like we shared/poached the same kills. (IMS the lion tapeworms are more diverse so we probably got the worms from the cats. It's not like lions caught worms from chewing on human ass.)

Turns out that its more complicated than I thought. Cats, Pigs, Hyenas, Cows... wow.

From a Teaching stand point. That's what we do. Teach
those to be better than ourselves. So they can do the same. Without our
genes doing so to help in some way, (Id say more like latent memory's)
we'd really be no where. We would have to re learn everything.

From an
Engineer's point of view. We learn something and put it into effect. The
next class see's that and learns and improves from that. So why not have
the Spartans as that are improved from our standing to the best we can do
still have unlocked potential?

At the most what has been learned from the
point of view of 343 about the FR. They use a DNA type for securing their
systems. Hence the covenant and such cant interact without a hacking of
sort. We are in and of itself here to operate it.

When the Librarian said
she could accelerate it. She could take our latent abilities as (Spartans
II's/ Humans) and process them even more so. Making us more so evolved.

say is is magic. I doubt that. Take a ball point pen to a tribe in Brazil
or Africa untouched by modern humans and see how they are. Show them a
real hockey or basketball game. It's all magic and perception on what we
can do.

Today's world people can become dependent on steroids to become
stronger and faster. What happens when their body is going through passes
on to the next generation.

This is Lamarkian inheritance. We generally don't see this happening and there are no known mechanisms that could make this work with Spartans. Unless the Spartan augmentations get into their eggs or sperm and breed true then they can't pass their enhancements on to their offspring. AFAIK none of the enhancements described in the fiction can be passed on to their offspring. In addition I think that some of the enhancements had warnings that stated that they could lower the fertility of the candidates.

Oh yea, Beauty, Strength, Intelligence. Who
would of thought. So to think what what we could do to our own in genetic
manipulation and chemical manipulation to improve our species is perfect
only for someone who is a 1k years beyond us say hey this is where you
need to improve is a bad thing or just magic is mad???? Seriously? No
matter how much we improve, There is always room for improvement. Take a
400lb person to an an Olympic athlete. You have so much inner strength to
outer ability (strength) but only to a point. Stressing definition. When
you combine both you get strength and versatility to over compensate the
later. What would be the better? Nothing unless you had someone to cross
genes. Or unlock the genes to express both. Thus being the best in
strength and versatility while being all around looking normal. You cant
think just for being a one type person of one trait to be better when it
takes more so to be better than all. Add the all the traits and you's want
that more than you want yourself. Whats better in the end? The better you
or the better everyone from what you can do?

If you honestly can find something to debate about this. Pleas do so. I think
I find the best on both parts. Both Teacher, and Engineer for this

Messages In This Thread

"Evolution" in sci-fiDervish5/31/13 3:29 pm
     Re: "Evolution" in sci-fipadraig085/31/13 4:49 pm
           Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiDervish5/31/13 6:05 pm
                 It's not sci-fi, it's the Victorians.Leviathan6/1/13 11:48 am
     Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiscarab5/31/13 7:57 pm
           Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiQuirel5/31/13 10:24 pm
                 Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiGeneral Vagueness6/1/13 2:20 am
                 Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiscarab6/1/13 4:17 am
                       Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiQuirel6/3/13 1:33 am
                             Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiCHa0s6/4/13 2:43 am
                                   Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiGeneral Vagueness6/6/13 12:15 am
                                         Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiGeneral Vagueness6/6/13 12:40 am
                       Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiGeneral Vagueness6/5/13 11:24 pm
     Agreed *NM*RC Master5/31/13 7:59 pm
     Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiscarab5/31/13 8:03 pm
           Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiSEspider5/31/13 8:41 pm
     Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiSEspider5/31/13 8:32 pm
           Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiStephen L. (SoundEffect)5/31/13 8:50 pm
                 This *NM*CHa0s6/1/13 11:32 am
                 Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiCody Miller6/2/13 4:24 pm
                       Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiStephen L. (SoundEffect)6/2/13 4:47 pm
           Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiDervish5/31/13 9:55 pm
           Wow...RC Master6/1/13 9:13 am
                 Re: Wow...scarab6/1/13 11:03 am
           Re: "Evolution" in sci-fithebruce06/3/13 11:40 am
                 Smells like a logical fallacyscarab6/3/13 4:36 pm
                       Re: Smells like a logical fallacyscarab6/3/13 5:12 pm
                             Re: Smells like a logical fallacyMacGyver106/3/13 5:58 pm
                       Re: Smells like a logical fallacythebruce06/3/13 6:00 pm
                             Re: Smells like a logical fallacyuberfoop6/3/13 6:07 pm
                                   Re: Smells like a logical fallacythebruce06/3/13 8:08 pm
     Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiQuirel5/31/13 11:10 pm
     Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiAndrewSS026/1/13 4:43 am
           Re: "Evolution" in sci-fi *NM*AndrewSS026/1/13 4:49 am
           Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiscarab6/1/13 5:52 am
     Re: "Evolution" in sci-fiCHa0s6/1/13 12:06 pm
     I would like to emphasize the "sci-fi"serpx6/1/13 12:44 pm
           This :) *NM*thebruce06/3/13 11:52 am
           Re: I would like to emphasize the "sci-fi"Quirel6/4/13 1:35 am
                 Re: I would like to emphasize the "sci-fi"scarab6/4/13 1:41 pm
     A couple of partial defensesArithmomaniac6/2/13 1:02 pm
           Re: A couple of partial defensesRC Master6/2/13 4:00 pm
                 Re: A couple of partial defensesCody Miller6/2/13 4:19 pm
                 Re: A couple of partial defensesArithmomaniac6/2/13 7:38 pm
           Re: A couple of partial defensesCody Miller6/2/13 4:17 pm
                 Re: A couple of partial defensesGrimmire6/4/13 6:22 am
                       Re: A couple of partial defensesthebruce06/4/13 9:44 am
                       Re: A couple of partial defensesGeneral Vagueness6/6/13 12:38 am
     He added his email in the genome?!?CHa0s6/5/13 11:50 am

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