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Thanks. More, if you like.
By:Revenant1988
Date: 6/10/15 4:25 pm

: Ditto, it's an intriguing parallel from rev...

To elaborate a bit, the reason I use those as comparisons is because many things in Halo easily compare to it. It also makes it easier for me to digest and understand the transitions Halo has gone through from Bungie to 343.

Bungie, "Old Halo" and WW2


People love to get into debates about Halsey = Mengele but I've done my time in that debate. Halsey is no Angel of Death, her motives were not based on "purifying" a "master race", so that should serve as end of topic. Halsey never outright sought to exterminate anyone based on the traits that Mengele did.

As Americans, we have a bit of a romanticized view of WW2 and our involvement in it. This is of course, not unlike the view many of us have of Bungie's Halo. It's not really a coincidence, because it was written that way.

Excluding the extended fiction a bit, Halo 1-3 (and sure, reach) is about Humanity being on the brink of extinction. A huge war, with a menacing enemy. Good vs Evil. Right vs Wrong. Covenant = Nazis and Humanity Allies. A fight for the right to exist. Truth may as well have been Hitler, and Humanity Jews and all others persecuted under that banner.

So it's easy to to root for the UNSC in Halo 1-3. We're the good guys. Sure, we all know we're doing some questionable things, but this is war. This is it. The ends justify the means. Do or die. Sort it out later. And just like the Allies, the UNSC ultimately won the major conflict. Just like the Germans, the Covenant couldn't fight on two fronts, the UNSC being the Allies and the Flood sitting in briefly for the Russians in this context (re-call, the Gravemind did ally with the Chief, briefly).

Halsey, she's more of an Oppenheimer than outright villain, though that doesn't make those that see her as one any less wrong. The SPARTAN project may as well be the Manhattan project. Sure, in the end it won the war, and better that it was used by us than them, right? Atomic weapons are terrible. We know this now. Good thing the Allies dropped them first, then. We saw the outcomes and resolved to stop. Who knows if Russia or the Germans would have been so kind, had they gotten them first. Mutually assured destruction was (still IS) the only thing able to keep things peaceful.

And So, while everyone else is celebrating victory, the dust is settling and there is a power grab, to pick up as many pieces as possible while remaining unseen, before that fog has cleared. For the Allies, it was operation Paperclip. For the UNSC, it's a grab for as much Forerunner tech as we can before the remnants of the Covenant, the Elites, can do the same.

To circle back, it's easy for us to Like the UNSC for the first 3 titles. We're the good guys. We're the underdogs. We're the ones trying to survive. We're the noble fighters. It's not propaganda, it's motivation!

343, "New Halo" and the Cold War\modern war on terror


How to begin...

It's often said that history is written by the victor. Oh what a true statement that is. Since WW2, we've not fought a war similar to it. There was Vietnam, and Korea, which if I may be general, was a proxy conflict between us and the Soviet Union. We may have downplayed and avoided direct conflict under those flags, but that didn't stop either side from doing it on the behalf of other nations, to secure their interests.

Then there are the parallels to the modern war on terror. Covenant? Storm Covenant? Insurrectionists? Covies WITH Insurrectionists? Sounds a lot like Al Qaeda, ISIS and Al Shabab to me. What has happened in Iraq? What is happening in Syria right now? One despot get toppled, and then there is a power vacuum. We deposed Saddam, liberated Iraq, toppled a dictator, only to have many smaller enemies take his place.

When I view post Halo 3 Elites, I see the middle East. It also seems like 343 does, as they have written about them as being home to an environment that is not unlike the modern Middle East we know, dominated by many small factions, warlords, religious dogma and radical interpretations. The Elites fight among themselves, based on differing interpretations of the Forerunners. ISIS and Al Qaeda do the same right now, as I write this, engaged in their own holy war. All while they war with the US and it's Allies. All while the Elites continue to war with the UNSC.

And yet, during all this still, Humanity wars with itself, conflict renewed now that the common enemy of the Covenant and Flood have been weakened. The root of the conflict between the outer and inner colonies is fairly well established, no warm feelings to Earth, resenting the lack of protection and exploitation of resources. The feeling that the UNSC and ONI are too much "big brother" than actual government. So what do we see in our modern world?

We have Snowden and the NSA. Americans today have learned that our own government has pointed some of it's best tools for deterrence, protection and surveillance at it's own citizens. In the name of protection, security. Not unlike ONI and the outer colonies, no?

So we see ourselves in a mirror, darkly.

We aren't exactly the shining white knights we see ourselves as, and that is hard for many to accept.

This is one large factor why I feel so many people turned away from 343's Halo after Bungie's Halo.

We certainly aren't the BAD guys, no. But our armor has now lost its luster. Things have changed. Black and White made things easy- easy to understand and easy to accept. Now things are more grey. There are cracks in the armor.

Friend and Foe, the lines have been blurred.

War is easy when you know who you are fighting. You don't like your enemy, but at least you know where they stand.

With today's modern conflicts, it's not like that at all. Instead of two, maybe 3 large players, you have many smaller conflicts and skirmishes.

To some extent, it's always been like this. The prevalence of the internet is what has opened up many of our eyes to the fact that maybe, just maybe government has gone to far, that it doesn't necessarily have the best intentions of it's own peoples in mind.

Like Captain America, a lot has changed while we were asleep (well, busy).

So this is where many fans got off the bus. Art direction and game play direction aside, this is about the story.




We have this idealized image of what the UNSC is, who the Spartans are, why we did what we did and why it's OK.

Those notions are being challenged.

It's an interesting direction to take the story, and ultimately, I feel a good one. Like many fandoms, most of us put a mental bookend or cap on it and stop when we want to stop.

StarWars was only the the original Trilogy.

Halo is only 1-Reach.

I see many parallels ripped from the headlines of today, and that's why I follow. I don't see it as a direct allegory, or even social commentary, but rather my thoughts on one are enriched by the other, making it easier to follow, more interesting to understand and watch.

But on the other side, sometimes we don't want to see the world we live in for what it is. We don't want to be reminded. We want to escape. We want to be distracted, sent off somewhere else, if only for a moment.

We want to read a story where we are the undisputed hero, the good guys.

It's harder then, to see yourself through the eyes of others and realize you aren't all you're cracked up to be.

So I don't like 343's art style. I don't like some of the game play mechanics. I'm still very much interested in the story, and what comes next. I want to see redemption.

This is why I constantly say things like "343's stuff isn't inherently bad, it's just different."

Because I understand why I feel that way.

It's the same way I felt when learning about America during WW2 and America after.


Messages In This Thread

Halo 5 July Gameinformer cover storyThe BS Police6/9/15 12:10 pm
     Re: Halo 5 July Gameinformer cover storycar156/9/15 12:23 pm
           FIRETEAM OSIRISBounce-A-Gon6/9/15 12:28 pm
                 OMG IT'S BUCK OMGBounce-A-Gon6/9/15 12:35 pm
                 Re: FIRETEAM OSIRISCody Miller6/9/15 1:02 pm
                       locke's team *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 1:05 pm
                             red spartan is Olympia valeBounce-A-Gon6/9/15 5:02 pm
                                   Re: red spartan is Olympia valeGrizzlei6/9/15 5:04 pm
                                         i expect tanaka and her not to get along too wellBounce-A-Gon6/9/15 5:35 pm
                                               Re: i expect tanaka and her not to get along too wGrizzlei6/9/15 5:39 pm
                                                     Re: i expect tanaka and her not to get along too wzofinda6/9/15 7:20 pm
                                                           Re: i expect tanaka and her not to get along too wGrizzlei6/9/15 7:39 pm
                       Seriouslypadraig086/10/15 9:31 am
                             Re: SeriouslyTDSpiral6/10/15 12:12 pm
                                   dbo is that away *points at the link* *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/10/15 12:59 pm
                                         Re: dbo is that away *points at the link*padraig086/10/15 2:21 pm
                                               woah there space wizard from the moon *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/10/15 4:01 pm
                                               Re: dbo is that away *points at the link*The BS Police6/10/15 4:08 pm
                                                     Re: dbo is that away *points at the link*Revenant19886/10/15 4:40 pm
                                                           yikes. i am sorry -.- *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/10/15 5:08 pm
           Re: Halo 5 July Gameinformer cover storyThe BS Police6/9/15 12:51 pm
                 late june is when the july comes out *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 12:56 pm
                 New Reclaimer Writeup covering the GI articleWahrer6/9/15 8:06 pm
     Super stoked for Blue Team and Buck *NM*davidfuchs6/9/15 12:39 pm
           justBounce-A-Gon6/9/15 12:43 pm
                 Just to confirm... *GIF*Grizzlei6/9/15 1:25 pm
                       thank you my master *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 2:00 pm
                             Re: Settle down, Josh...Hyokin6/9/15 2:46 pm
                                   Re: Settle down, Josh...gamerguy20026/9/15 3:01 pm
                                         Re: Settle down, Josh...Grizzlei6/9/15 3:13 pm
                                               Oh.gamerguy20026/9/15 3:40 pm
                                                     Re: Oh.Grizzlei6/9/15 3:48 pm
                                                           Re: Oh.Hyokin6/9/15 10:47 pm
                                                                 Re: Oh.Grizzlei6/9/15 10:55 pm
                                                                 Re: Oh.General Vagueness6/9/15 11:40 pm
                                   Buck HypeBounce-A-Gon6/9/15 5:56 pm
           DittoArchilen6/9/15 12:43 pm
                 Goosebumps Just Reading This *NM*zofinda6/9/15 12:45 pm
     So. Dual campaigns then. *NM*Revenant19886/9/15 12:45 pm
           Re: So. Dual campaigns then.Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 1:15 pm
                 I hope they nail the AIscarab6/9/15 1:26 pm
                       Re: I hope they nail the AIArchilen6/9/15 1:32 pm
                             Re: I hope they nail the AIRevenant19886/9/15 1:43 pm
                                   Re: I hope they nail the AIArchilen6/9/15 1:47 pm
                                         Re: I hope they nail the AIQuirel6/10/15 12:40 am
                       So they have changed the AI. Promising...scarab6/11/15 11:29 am
     GI image dumpBounce-A-Gon6/9/15 1:08 pm
           Re: GI image dumpRevenant19886/9/15 1:16 pm
                 compared to what?Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 1:25 pm
                       His armored body. *NM*Revenant19886/9/15 1:27 pm
                       Re: compared to what?Grizzlei6/9/15 1:32 pm
                       Re: compared to what?TucsonBatman6/9/15 8:08 pm
                 Re: GI image dumpArchilen6/9/15 1:28 pm
           Crap. Crap. Megacrap.Quirel6/9/15 4:32 pm
     DibsGrizzlei6/9/15 1:36 pm
           lets make a spartan dating game :P *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 2:05 pm
           Re: Dibscar156/9/15 2:17 pm
                 Re: Dibscar156/9/15 2:18 pm
                       Chief senpai...... notice me *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 2:25 pm
                 Re: DibsGrizzlei6/9/15 2:19 pm
                       Re: DibsLouis Wu6/9/15 6:27 pm
                             Re: DibsGrizzlei6/9/15 6:32 pm
                                   Re: DibsStephen L. (SoundEffect)6/9/15 8:14 pm
                                         Re: DibsQuirel6/12/15 2:05 am
     Re: Halo 5 July Gameinformer cover storyuberfoop6/9/15 1:57 pm
     Re: Halo 5 July Gameinformer cover storyMixmasterchief6/9/15 3:07 pm
           boo my subscription expired *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 3:47 pm
     Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?Grizzlei6/9/15 3:50 pm
           Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?zofinda6/9/15 4:27 pm
           Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?General Vagueness6/9/15 5:06 pm
                 Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?Grizzlei6/9/15 5:26 pm
                       Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?General Vagueness6/9/15 7:38 pm
                             Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?Grizzlei6/9/15 7:46 pm
                                   Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?General Vagueness6/9/15 9:30 pm
                                         Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?Grizzlei6/9/15 9:35 pm
                                               give him a bear hug *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 9:47 pm
                                                     Is this how hugs, human? *GIF*Grizzlei6/9/15 9:50 pm
                                                           give him that. he will love it *snickers* *NM*Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 9:54 pm
                                               Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?General Vagueness6/9/15 11:15 pm
                                                     Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?Grizzlei6/9/15 11:20 pm
                             Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?Bounce-A-Gon6/9/15 8:03 pm
                                   Re: Yes. Yes. Yes. Did I mention yes?General Vagueness6/9/15 9:31 pm
           *heavy breathing* *NM*ZackDark6/9/15 6:39 pm
     Anyone else remember when...munky-0586/9/15 5:29 pm
           Re: Anyone else remember when...Grizzlei6/9/15 5:40 pm
                 We can't all have the same opinions, bro.munky-0586/9/15 6:13 pm
                 Grizzilei my friend rememberBounce-A-Gon6/9/15 6:18 pm
           Re: Anyone else remember when...Yakaman6/9/15 7:18 pm
                 Re: Anyone else remember when...Dielectric6/9/15 7:44 pm
                       Re: Anyone else remember when...The BS Police6/9/15 7:48 pm
                       Re: Anyone else remember when...Grizzlei6/9/15 7:52 pm
                             Re: Anyone else remember when...Dielectric6/9/15 8:44 pm
                                   Re: Anyone else remember when...Archilen6/10/15 1:39 am
                                         Re: Anyone else remember when...Quirel6/14/15 2:09 am
                                               differing female body typeBounce-A-Gon6/14/15 2:45 am
                                                     Re: +1 *NM*Hyokin6/14/15 2:48 am
                                                     Re: differing female body typeRevenant19886/14/15 8:17 am
                                                     Re: differing female body typeArchilen6/14/15 8:42 am
                                                     I'm going to be sorry I brought this up.Quirel6/14/15 11:40 am
                                                           questionSPU7N1K6/14/15 3:42 pm
                                                                 Re: questionQuirel6/15/15 12:31 am
                                                                 Re: questionArchilen6/15/15 2:33 am
                                                                       nice to know!SPU7N1K6/15/15 8:51 am
                                               Re: Anyone else remember when...serpx6/15/15 1:23 am
                       Tongue in cheek! :-) *NM*Yakaman6/10/15 3:01 pm
           I never forgot *IMG*Revenant19886/9/15 10:56 pm
                 Re: I never forgot *IMG*Grizzlei6/9/15 11:02 pm
                       You've got a point.Quirel6/11/15 5:40 pm
                             Re: You've got a point.Grizzlei6/11/15 5:49 pm
                                   Re: You've got a point.General Vagueness6/11/15 6:07 pm
                                   Re: You've got a point.Quirel6/12/15 2:50 am
                                         Re: You've got a point.Grizzlei6/12/15 3:56 am
                                               Re: You've got a point.Archilen6/12/15 4:40 am
                             Re: You've got a point.Leviathan6/13/15 4:57 am
                                   Re: You've got a point.Quirel6/14/15 1:33 am
                 #TeamClassicMarkV *NM*Archilen6/10/15 1:21 am
                 One issue is the ridiculous proportions...munky-0586/10/15 5:02 am
                       Re: One issue is the ridiculous proportions...Car156/10/15 5:21 am
                       Re: One issue is the ridiculous proportions...Archilen6/10/15 5:24 am
                             Totally.munky-0586/10/15 5:33 am
                       Re: One issue is the ridiculous proportions...Revenant19886/10/15 9:31 am
                             Re: One issue is the ridiculous proportions...Car156/10/15 12:59 pm
                                   Re: One issue is the ridiculous proportions...thebruce06/10/15 2:52 pm
                                         Thanks. More, if you like.Revenant19886/10/15 4:25 pm
     So ridiculously excited for Blue Team. FINALLY!! *NM*Apollo6/9/15 6:22 pm
     First mission... *SP*Car156/9/15 8:10 pm
     Re: Halo 5 July Gameinformer cover storyTarZen6/10/15 6:56 pm

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