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Re: I've got a good one for ya...
Date: 5/18/13 4:33 pm
In Response To: I've got a good one for ya... (SEspider)

: "... before this is all over, promise me you'll find out which one of us
: is the machine."

: Source:

: The humanity in Halo's Multiplayer has gone out the window for good when the
: TU for Reach was released. Heck, I'd go as far as saying it went out the
: window when Halo MP was put on Xbox Live. Players have become so focused
: on "winning" and "balance" that neither exist in the
: game anymore.

Winning absolutely still exists, and balance has actually worked out pretty well throughout the games. Reach had numerous actual real balancing problems, mostly when it comes to vehicles (and we all know bloom is hit or miss), but 343's solution to that was to release a TA that didn't fix anything and instead screwed with the bloom/rate of fire dynamic. Then you get to H4's balance, which is just about solid. Boltshot had issues. Fixed. DMR has been overpowered from the start. The whole world knows that. 343 themselves has admitted that. What's their solution? Tweak the DMR marginally and then mess with every other weapon. Because when one gun is overpowered, fix all the things, right? Who knows what they're doing.

What I'm getting at is that multiplayer absolutely has its humanity. It's definitely not always about winning, and even when it is, it can be an absolute blast. I think the Classic Customs last night showed it, even with some bumps and bruises and sour losses for both teams along the way.

: Remember when MP was about physically getting with friends and having fun?
: Online play comes and that immediately goes away (for the most part).
: Friends and I use to get together every week or so for lan parties and
: fellowship. It wasn't always Halo either. We often gave tips on how to
: beat games like Kameo (that game was a pain at times) and show one another
: exactly HOW to beat a difficult boss or puzzle.

I agree with the "immediately goes away (for the most part)" bit. Until the HBOMB (unless I count HaloFest, which I more or less do, but not fully as a LAN since it was on the convention floor and wasn't always focused), I don't think I have been to a real LAN since maybe, I dunno, 2005 or 2006? I seriously don't think I ever LAN'd H3. been to tournaments for H3 and Reach, but I wouldn't necessarily call those LANs, even if they are LAN tournaments. Personal definition/difference.

The part where I disagree is that Xbox Live has helped me stay in touch and play with friends, many of whom I know in person, who have gone off to college in different states, or joined the military and been deployed/stationed elsewhere, or gotten jobs far off (even if in the same state). We lost the ability to come and hang out and play like we used to, but we can continue to play just like before but online. And when we get to meet up again, we get the chance to play just like we used to side by side. Or when the fun stops because maybe it's too late at night or someone has to get home, the gameplay can continue over Live at night, sometimes all the way until sunrise. It can then pick back up the next day together in real life again. Xbox Live just continues the experience.

Then add in that bit about HaloFest and HBOMB and you see the friendships made online turning into something real and tangible in real life. You get HBOhio's and HBO Indy's and things where people who may have only ever known each other from HBO and Xbox Live finally coming together and playing side by side as well. There's still tons of humanity to it all.

: Today, players don't even see one another at all. Sure, there may be advice
: given but there's no fellowship nor one on one interaction. There's no
: "Showing" tips. Instead it through YouTube or written word. It's
: like going to football practice while all your teammates are sitting at
: home staring at their computers and your couch is "coaching"
: over the phone. I miss the fellowship. I've lost contact with all but one
: of my old friends now. And it saddens me. Sure I'm friends with you guys
: but it's just not the same as having someone nest to me to push and goof
: off with.

I guess I covered this up above, and you have some good points. It's not the same when looking back at the old split screen days and having a buddy or three with you (or more if LAN'd up in a same room or nearby). Taking breaks, grabbing food, talking about whatever, laughing in person. Yeah, a lot of that is lost. Sharing tips can still work with headsets, so it's not all text and videos, but I get what you're saying. I definitely disagree about the lack of fellowship though. I think HBO, at both its highly competitive and highly "just for fun/casual" side has extreme bonds and fellowship both in-game and out.

: The Title Updates on Reach caused a HUGE divide as you stated, John. And
: Halo4 is already doing it. I love Snipers and Swat. It test my skills and
: puts pressure to do well. But there are players here that hate it more
: then the Flood from past games (which I also love). There are players that
: love the TU in Reach, but I hate it because it ruins the balance. After
: Last Night, I'm officially done with Halo Reach. I HATE being shot across
: a large map with a DMR only to die after 2-3 shots. I HATE that I can't
: get kills when I get the drop on them and they simply have to turn and DMR
: me. I HATE Armor Lock. I HATE the TU melee system. I HATE that the pistol
: is so strong. I HATE that there's how the Vehicles drive. I use to be good
: at Reach. But the last two times I played, I was always in the negative
: due to the stupid TU giving unskilled players "lucky" kills from
: across the map. I couldn't even get any sniper shots due to the
: overpowered DMR in Reach last night! And in Reach, Sniping was my thing!!
: At least in Halo4 the overpowered DMR is semi counted with not being able
: to knock the sniper out of zoom. I don't mind being knocked out of zoom
: while sniping. But it shouldn't be from across Hemorrhage with a DMR or
: Pistol! It's Stupid!!

Now, before I say this next bit, maybe you're talking about the Big Team Battle matchmaking that happened after the Classic Customs. If that's the case, we both know that the 2-3 shot thing isn't true, but yeah, TU has issues. I can still play through them, but I get what you're saying, even if I disagree with a lot of it. Also, unskilled/lucky doesn't really apply in TU. What people never get is that with the rate of fire and bloom modifications in TU, you can basically crouch (as Gravemind loves to do) and get near-zero-bloom. You'll murder someone in an instant from across the map. Way to go 343.

If you're not referring to matchmaking, last night's Classic Customs was not played using TU to my knowledge, and I guarantee you didn't die after 2-3 shots from the DMR, cross-map or up close. I guess I'm also confused about how you get the jump and then get beat by a DMR. It sounds like we're talking skill disparity, not weapon functionality, though if you are referring to matchmaking then yeah, I can see that happen because it's happened to me plenty since TU's release. Regardless, DMR bloom can be a nightmare even in the most skilled of hands, and hardly guarantees a win in Reach. No comment on Armor Lock, I personally laugh at it delaying their inevitable death by my hand, but I know that everyone on the planet seems to hate it. :P

Also, Reach's pistol packs a punch with or without TU, but it's nowhere close to what H4's does, so dunno why you hate its "strength" while apparently being fine with H4's. And at least you can drive vehicles and they can be fun in Reach. H4's has issues.

: I'll wait and see how the weapon TU works in Halo4 before I pass judgement on
: it. But it's still crazy stupid to adjust all the weapons when it's clear
: that ONLY THE DMR is the big issue. Bring it down to the Carbine and Light
: Rifle specs and it'll be good. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! They have to go and
: adjust ALL the weapons to meet up with the DMR?! WHAT?!?!

Weapon TU. And whoa, nice, I just said that up above about fixing all the things when only one thing has a problem. Ah, 343, why you so inept?

: 343i is full of smart game designers. It boggles my mind that they can't see
: the SIMPLE answer to fix the SIMPLE issues. And the fact that they are
: making it a Game-type "fix" again is just nuts. Did they not
: learn from their mistakes in Halo Reach?! You want to give the new weapon
: TU a proper test, 343i? Here's your answer: Create a hidden listing in
: Match making for ALL CURRENT HBO MEMBERS. NO MLG members or other
: "professional" gamers. Let us NORMAL HALO LOVING GAMERS test the
: weapon balance and give feedback. At least we will be honest and think
: about new gamers entering the game. We complain and give fix suggestions
: all the time. We're Halo's largest and longest lasting community. How
: about listening to us once for a change?! Bungie seemed to listen and the
: MP improved. Why don't you? Seriously, do you have something against us or
: something? "The game must be balanced for new Halo gamers." Bull
: Crap!! We were all once "new Halo gamers" and we figured it out
: and adjusted. If anything, the new generation of Halo players will be
: better at adjust then us Halo Vets. For they grew up in the HD 3D FPS
: world They know how to view the different worlds of games today and adjust
: quickly. They will be fine. Oh and here's another point to keep in mind.
: universe then they WILL want to check out past Halo games. But they are
: going to hate them because they can't get use to the mechanics of the
: SIMPLER game-play. We seeing that now. There's a big divide between
: Halo1/2 fans and Halo3 fans. Many see H3 as the best. I believe it's
: because it's the game they started with and it had duel wielding and
: equipment. Something that many games had at that time period. Personally,
: I like Halo 1 and 2 the most. simple game-play and mechanics. Only two
: weapons and two types of grenades. Outside of the pistol in Halo1, MP was
: well balanced. And the maps were fun to play and easy to navigate.

Holycowwalloftext. And to answer your question about learning from their mistakes in Reach, well, it's two parts:

Schooly was right.

No comment on the rest of what you posted. :P

Messages In This Thread

Bulletin's up!ZackDark5/16/13 1:26 am
     Re: Bulletin's up!TDSpiral5/16/13 2:05 am
           Re: Bulletin's up!FyreWulff5/16/13 2:16 am
                 Re: Bulletin's up!Grizzlei5/16/13 2:54 am
                 Re: Bulletin's up!DEEP NNN5/16/13 8:09 am
                 Re: Bulletin's up!Avateur5/16/13 9:04 pm
     Re: Bulletin's up!FyreWulff5/16/13 2:11 am
           Well...kornman005/16/13 3:58 am
                 Re: Well...FyreWulff5/16/13 6:04 am
                       Re: Well...FyreWulff5/16/13 6:15 am
                             Re: Well...zoojoo5/16/13 6:51 am
                             Re: Well...pete_the_duck5/16/13 7:24 am
                                   Re: That's exactly what I was afraid of...Hyokin5/16/13 11:10 am
                                         "It's just like Reach all over again!" *NM*Chewbaccawakka5/16/13 1:14 pm
                                               You know what's funny...Hyokin5/17/13 10:56 am
                                                     I've got a good one for ya...SEspider5/18/13 4:07 pm
                                                           Re: I've got a good one for ya...Avateur5/18/13 4:33 pm
                                                                 Re: I've got a good one for ya...SEspider5/18/13 11:29 pm
                                         Re: That's exactly what I was afraid of...bluerunner5/16/13 5:02 pm
                                               Re: That's exactly what I was afraid of...Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)5/16/13 5:39 pm
                                                     This^. *NM*Hyokin5/17/13 10:54 am
                                   Do not trust to hope. It has forsaken these lands.breitzen5/16/13 12:16 pm
                                   Re: Well...Avateur5/16/13 9:11 pm
                                         Re: Well...pete_the_duck5/16/13 9:24 pm
                       Re: Well...DEEP NNN5/16/13 8:00 am
                             This doesn't bug me too muchCARDO 8 ATL5/16/13 1:35 pm
                             Re: Well...TCKaos5/16/13 2:05 pm
                                   Yes, they're in the game variant datakornman005/16/13 3:08 pm
                                         Re: Yes, they're in the game variant dataDEEP NNN5/16/13 4:30 pm
                                               Re: Yes, they're in the game variant dataRC Master5/16/13 4:49 pm
                                                     Re: Yes, they're in the game variant dataDEEP NNN5/16/13 4:51 pm
                                                           Re: Yes, they're in the game variant datapete_the_duck5/16/13 5:07 pm
                                                                 Re: Yes, they're in the game variant dataDEEP NNN5/16/13 5:31 pm
                                                                       Re: Yes, they're in the game variant datapete_the_duck5/16/13 5:54 pm
                                               It's all part of the game variant filekornman005/16/13 8:04 pm
                                                     Re: It's all part of the game variant fileDEEP NNN5/16/13 10:12 pm
     Congratulations Flying Shoe *NM*General Vagueness5/17/13 12:46 am
     What's 5 Flag? (should I get excited?) *NM*General Vagueness5/17/13 12:48 am
           Re: What's 5 Flag? (should I get excited?)Avateur5/17/13 1:25 am
                 Re: What's 5 Flag? (should I get excited?)pete_the_duck5/17/13 8:44 am
                       Re: What's 5 Flag? (should I get excited?)Avateur5/17/13 8:43 pm
     Re: Bulletin's up!gamerguy20025/18/13 4:43 pm

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