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Re: Here's how I see it
Date: 4/18/13 2:44 pm
In Response To: Re: Here's how I see it (RC Master)

: Power, availability, utility.

Exactly, if that's what you always give the user, that's what they're going to use (that sounds so dumb lol)

: I think the M6D actually helps proves the counter-point of 'need for
: familiarity' actually.

: Most people at that point were used to pistols being back-up, last-resort
: weapons. Something you'd throw away or ignore as soon as you got something
: bigger. I know I did.

Not exactly, because all those pistols behaved like semi-auto rifles. There were no BR's in ODST, and halo players needs something that behaves like a rifle or they'll stop playing it. You know what my sleeper favorite was? The M7. My god. I loved that Silenced and scoped SMG.

: But the thing was it HAD the power, it HAD the availability, it HAD the
: utility. So once people discovered this suddenly it become their go-to
: gun, despite initially seeming puny and weak. And it REWARDED you for
: getting better at it.

In ODST it wasn't discovered... you start with it off the bat. The game forces you to use it until you kill at least one enemy. Bungie also showed it off pretty well in the promos for what it could do so I disagree with you here.

Remove the sound and the skin and as long as it scopes in and gets head shots players won't know the difference. At least the Socom had a nice 'walk' mechanic when fired rapidly.

: You'll only get a tiny fraction of a second benefit (maybe) in trying to
: master a Carbine for closer range encounters - and then they're planning
: to buff the super-noob-friendly ARs and the pretty-easy-to-use BR as well
: so their niche is squeezed.

Maybe so, but in all honesty I know I'm a niche player and my weapon of choice is shunned. IDK why they're tweaking the automatic weapons... I think they are balanced pretty well. Some people have it in their heads that the AR should only work on targets that are 2.5 feet in front of them- those players are clearly mad.

: And what is the point in suffering with inconsistent damage/kill time of the
: Light Rifle when I'm already familiar with the DMR, and since everyone
: else also uses the DMR I have way more ammo available?

: Sorry, I'm going full cynic today :P

No, you'r right. I don't see the point to picking up a light rifle over a DMR, they're pretty much the same gun to me. The whole idea of the shots being more powerful when scoped in with that gun is an excellent idea! It makes the gun feel just a tad more alien (which is something Halo fucking desperately needs again) but that mechanic really only makes sense when you get knocked out of scope when shot.... d'oh!

: As a game developer you are a god. You control everything from how a weapon
: looks, to how it 'feels,' it's power, it's effects, it's availability, the
: interactions with other weapons. You give them a reason to use it and
: players will. Maybe because there is a particular map where it is the main
: power weapon, or a certain gametype where it excels, or a certain map size
: where it dominates.

: Conversely, what is the point in making more weapons that do pretty much the
: same thing with slight stat differences when people don't use them anyway
: because you've engineered one to be more overall appealing than all the
: others?

This is the crux of what I'm saying- I think we're both right.

Who's fault is it?
Is it the players fault for not wanting to try something different?
Is it 343's fault for listening to what the players want? (in this case more of the same ol rifle monotony)

It's both!

The players should be open to try something different and 343 shouldn't be afraid to make them try, because as we've all know at this point the community is going to bitch like nobody's business either way so to hell with it- If you gotta drag em kicking and screaming to try something they might actually like I say it's worth it.

A lot of people I talk to these days say they're still huge fans of Halo but they're kinda bored with it and this subject is a big part of it.

For a game that started out as "Combat Evolved" it really hasn't in a lot of ways.

A good rule of thumb is if it ain't broke, you don't fix it. So they SHOULD keep Mr. Boring namby-pamby land DMR as he is.

That should leave them plenty of room to go absolutely crazy with new guns and vehicles- they're new freaking slates that don't have any previous canon holding them back- if ever there was a time to not play it safe, THAT WAS IT.

Grrrrrrr so much wasted potential because of that .... AHHHHHHH!

: It's worth pointing out that in Halo 3 you could not make the Carbine a
: starting weapon since it didn't appear in the data of every map.

I remember now. Still, the maps it was on players didn't exactly gravitate towards it. Except me I guess.

: Availability and ease at range (DMR had higher zoom). There had by that point
: been a long established belief about the relative usefulness.

: And excluding Invasion is exactly my point: you had to spawn with it as an
: Elite in later rounds and in the first round it was your only available
: 'power' weapon most of the time.

: Give people a reason, they used it.

Ditto. So far there is no reason to use a BR, Carbine, or light rifle except to die.

: Later stages of campaign? As early as level 3 - Forerunner - it was your
: workhorse. They also successfully made it BORING to use since you just had
: to spam it against Knights.

I don't remember using it early on, I used the carbine a lot ;)

: TL/DR: the design of Halo 4's loadout weapons was flawed from inception right
: through to implementation and I don't think these tweaks are going to
: change that.

They are flawed because they don't differentiate enough. It's like having 4 of the same screw driver in my tool box but the handles are different colors and 3 of them hurt my hand when I use them.

You know what kind of crazy ass gun I want in Halo 5? I want something like the undertow ability in Bioshock Infinite. I made a post about it a while back, it being a gun that could let you grab all kinds of stuff

-Pull a grunt out of a speeding ghost!
-Float groups of grunts in the air!
-Rip off a jackals shield gauntlet! Give new meaning to "disarming" your enemies ;)
-Pull a hunter's shield away from him but risk him reversing the laso and throwing YOU
-Pull a scorpions turret off target at the expense of a bunch of energy!
-Crazy custom mongoose grabber races!

Messages In This Thread

Bulletin for 4.17.13GrimBrother One4/17/13 11:58 pm
     Halo 4 might be saved.bryan newman4/18/13 12:36 am
           Halo 4 might be further damaged.uberfoop4/18/13 1:19 am
                 Re: Halo 4 might be further damaged.breitzen4/19/13 10:55 am
                       Re: Halo 4 might be further damaged.Kalamari4/19/13 11:38 am
                       Re: DMR changes probably off the table.DEEP NNN4/19/13 11:47 am
                             Re: DMR changes probably off the table.uberfoop4/19/13 1:00 pm
                             Re: DMR changes probably off the table.breitzen4/19/13 2:00 pm
     Yay Carbine! :) *NM*Revenant19884/18/13 8:35 am
           +1 *NM*iForge4/22/13 8:43 pm
     I was at AGL?RC Master4/18/13 10:02 am
           Here's how I see itRevenant19884/18/13 10:51 am
                 Re: Here's how I see itMr Daax4/18/13 11:08 am
                       AR ALL THE WAY! *NM*Chewbaccawakka4/18/13 11:46 am
                             Supressor or go home! *NM*ZackDark4/18/13 7:36 pm
                 Re: Here's how I see itRC Master4/18/13 11:46 am
                       Re: Here's how I see itChewbaccawakka4/18/13 11:53 am
                       Re: Here's how I see itRevenant19884/18/13 2:44 pm
                             Re: Here's how I see itRC Master4/19/13 5:56 pm
                                   Re: Here's how I see itZackDark4/19/13 7:59 pm
                                         Re: Here's how I see ituberfoop4/19/13 8:25 pm
                                         Re: Here's how I see itRC Master4/19/13 10:34 pm
                                               I wouldn't mind much, to be honest. *NM*ZackDark4/19/13 10:49 pm
                                                     Re: I wouldn't mind much, to be honest.trappeddark4/22/13 4:24 pm
           Re: GrifballKal4/18/13 11:31 am
                 Re: GrifballRC Master4/18/13 11:50 am
                       Re: GrifballKal4/18/13 12:00 pm
                             Re: GrifballRC Master4/18/13 12:04 pm
                                   Re: GrifballKal4/18/13 1:31 pm
           Aim AssistSonGoharotto4/18/13 12:51 pm
           Re: I was at AGL?Gravemind4/18/13 7:59 pm
     WeaponsSeraph XXVII4/18/13 12:10 pm
           Re: WeaponsSeraph XXVII4/18/13 12:38 pm
                 Re: WeaponsSonGoharotto4/18/13 12:41 pm
                       Re: WeaponsSeraph XXVII4/18/13 1:16 pm
                             Re: WeaponsSonGoharotto4/18/13 1:34 pm
                                   Re: Weaponsthebruce04/18/13 7:43 pm
                                         The Fast & The Furious 7: Semantic Drift *NM*SonGoharotto4/19/13 12:46 am
                                   Re: WeaponsGrimmire4/20/13 12:46 am

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