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Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 Industries
By:Gravemind
Date: 9/6/16 7:32 pm
In Response To: Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 Industries (MacGyver10)

: I'd say Forge (by far), free content/dlc delivery, expanded universe and
: merchandising. I know two of those have nothing to do with the games, but
: as a Halo fan I've enjoyed the novels (let's just agree to forget the
: Escalation comics), IP-crossovers (warthog/Forza, Arbiter/KI) and options
: in merchandise that just weren't there with Bungie as much (Nicole/DOA and
: grunt plushie aside).

Free DLC has been good. For the most part. I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but most of the maps we've gotten are "remixes" of existing maps rather than entirely new and distinct concepts (only Coliseum and Tyrant haven't been remixed). Also, Warzone maps are way too modular, with the same buildings being reused in every map, just arranged differently. 343i could use some improvements in level design. I've actually been retooling my "Ultimate Halo Game" article again to account for ideas I've had about these sorts of things since Halo 5 came out.

: I've grown to put up with the art direction, though like you, I believe 85%
: of what 343 has done pales in comparison to the original art. There's a
: difference between recreating (using new tools to update old designs),
: re-imagining (using old designs to update with new designs) and
: redesigning (ignoring old designs and creating new designs), and
: unfortunately, 343 has redesigned more than they've re-imagined or
: recreated.

It's not just their art design that bugs me, but also their use of color. 343i's art is not only not aesthetically pleasing to me, it is often bad for gameplay. Covenant armor is dully-colored and lacks the clear color-coded ranks of Bungie-era games, where the Covie's not only popped with vibrant colors, but you could easily tell what rank an Elite or Grunt was. Minor Elites were blue, Majors were red/crimson, Ultras were white, and Zealots were gold. The maps are filled with excessive "visual noise" as well as poorly contrasting colors. We've reached a point where Call of Duty now manages to produce more visually-pleasing maps than Halo, with Treyarch making some nice, colorful maps with clean lines.

I actually made a couple of big images comparing 343i's use of color compared to Bungie's, and I may post them in a reply to this post later on tonight (gotta go make dinner after I'm done posting this).

: Every game these days will have some kind of microtransaction system in
: place. It's here to stay. I feel the REQ system is honestly the best,
: possible option we'd have out there. The only time I use REQs is to work
: on commendations, otherwise I'd be 'REQless' in my playtime.

If microtransactions are here to stay, they need to be less intrusive, less grind-y and RNG-dependent, and less likely to impact gameplay. This "Month of Mythic" is an example of everything wrong with MTs. The REQ system needs to be overhauled a good bit, and I have a few ideas of my own, which I'm also incorporating into my current UHG article overhaul.

: Halo 4 multiplayer was 343 trying to hard to be different, and it was
: horrible because of it. I think the spartan abilities were where Halo
: needed to go to have a chance at relevancy in a world of slides,
: wall-running, double jumps and teleporting.

That's what bugs me with AAA development. Overly focus-tested trend-chasing bugs the shit out of me. I don't necessarily mind borrowing certain concepts from other games if they fit well, but simply copying other games in a brazen attempt at staying relevant. Not that Halo was in any danger of becoming relevant, because Bungie managed to go through CoD's peak era without trying to CoD-ify Halo, whereas aping all the wall-running, ledge grabbing, thruster-packing trends in recent years did not prevent Halo 5 from experiencing a massive drop in sales compared to previous games. Let Halo be Halo. A good game will sell regardless of whether or not it tries to emulate many of the core concepts of other popular games. At the very least, the Spartan Abilities need tweaking, and the pace of combat needs to be slowed down. It's been ten months already since Halo 5 came out, and I still have a hard time dealing with the flow and pacing of the combat.

: Lack of gametypes to me has become even more obvious with the success of Halo
: 5's Forge. It's a glaring omission that I hope they finally correct before
: the end of the year.

Race was always a favorite gametype of mine, and the lack of classic objective gametypes like Oddball and KotH is simply inexcusable. How can a major studio owned by a massive company building a big budget AAA game with a 3-year dev cycle fail to include something that simple when games far older managed to be more complete experiences on day one? Basic gametypes that have been series staples since the OG Xbox days should not be something we have to wait months to get.

: As someone else said, I prefer the humanization of Chief that 343 took with
: Halo 4, but the story that surrounded his personal journey was left to
: only lore-lovers and fans of the EU. I felt Halo 5 did a better job of
: crafting a plot than Halo 4 did, but the plot itself and focus on Locke
: left me wanting more. Not to mention Locke as a character just bugs me for
: some reason. Give me the rest of Osiris, but even Locke's live action
: mini-series didn't make me care enough about his character.

Osiris and Blue Team sans John all felt like rather flat characters, a problem I also had with Noble Team in Reach.

: I wonder about that though. We see what Bungie has become post-Halo and how
: so many of the employees that made Halo great have left or been kicked
: out. I think Bungie would probably be screwing up the game as much as 343,
: but in completely different ways. As you said, 343 has a chance to live up
: to the legacy with shifting things around a little bit (have Joe Staten at
: least consult with the story or give Jeff Easterling a bigger role), but
: hopefully we'll see progress soon!

I think a lot of the problems at Bungie today post-Halo/MS are due to Activision. They made a deal with the devil there. 343i needs to bring in as many former Bungie employees as possible. Staten to do the story, Marty for the music (they'd need to subcontract him since he works for another company now), and whatever artists and map & UI designers they can. Basically, whatever Bungie clearly did better, the people who made those aspects of the games better need to be brought onto the 343i team whenever possible.


Messages In This Thread

ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesSIX min WHISTLE9/5/16 3:02 pm
     Funny how they glossed over Reach *NM*The BS Police9/5/16 3:56 pm
           Re: Funny how they glossed over Reachuberfoop9/5/16 3:59 pm
                 Did you know that it was made by waver birds? *NM*scarab9/6/16 8:59 am
                       weaver DOH! *NM*scarab9/6/16 9:00 am
                 Re: Funny how they glossed over Reachstabbim9/8/16 9:53 am
                       *blast from the past*davidfuchs9/9/16 11:33 am
           Re: Funny how they glassed over ReachUrban Reflex9/7/16 2:09 am
     Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesDHalo9/5/16 11:27 pm
           Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesMacGyver109/6/16 11:18 am
           Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesGravemind9/6/16 2:13 pm
                 Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesDHalo9/6/16 5:27 pm
                       Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesGravemind9/6/16 5:33 pm
                             Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesDHalo9/6/16 6:12 pm
                                   Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesGrimBrother One9/7/16 8:11 pm
                                         Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesQuirel9/8/16 2:51 am
                                         Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesMacGyver109/8/16 12:01 pm
                                               Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesDHalo9/9/16 6:16 pm
                                               Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesQuirel9/11/16 4:27 pm
                                                     Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 Industriesdavidfuchs9/12/16 9:17 am
                                               Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesGravemind9/12/16 9:58 am
                 Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesMacGyver109/6/16 6:30 pm
                       Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesGravemind9/6/16 7:32 pm
                             Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesTuckerscreator9/6/16 9:25 pm
                                   Microtransactions rant. *long*Gravemind9/7/16 2:00 am
                                         Re: WhalesTuckerscreator9/7/16 3:51 pm
                 Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesThe BS Police9/7/16 2:50 am
                       A quick correctionThe BS Police9/7/16 2:53 am
                       Not mutually exclusive. *NM*Quirel9/7/16 3:04 am
                       Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesSchedonnardus9/7/16 10:28 am
                             Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesDHalo9/7/16 12:41 pm
                             Talking of Precursors and sins of the father...scarab9/7/16 2:17 pm
                                   Re: Talking of Precursors and sins of the father..Quirel9/8/16 2:57 am
                                         Re: Talking of Precursors and sins of the father..davidfuchs9/9/16 11:37 am
                                               what do you think she did? *NM*scarab9/9/16 3:37 pm
                                                     Re: what do you think she did?davidfuchs9/11/16 10:32 am
                                                           so you think 343's canon isn't consistent?scarab9/12/16 5:34 am
                                                                 Re: so you think 343's canon isn't consistent?davidfuchs9/12/16 9:15 am
                                                                       That's a contradictionscarab9/12/16 9:40 am
                                                                             Re: That's a contradictiondavidfuchs9/12/16 9:57 am
                             Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 Industriesthebruce09/7/16 2:23 pm
                       Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesGravemind9/7/16 11:36 am
                             Re: ex-Bungie compared to 343 IndustriesDHalo9/7/16 12:51 pm
                                   "You ARE Gorilla" said Sparkyscarab9/7/16 1:54 pm
                                         Re: "You ARE Gorilla" said SparkyThe BS Police9/7/16 2:13 pm
                                               Re: "You ARE Gorilla" said Sparkyscarab9/7/16 2:25 pm
                                                     Re: "You ARE Gorilla" said SparkyDHalo9/7/16 3:48 pm
                                                           Re: "You ARE Gorilla" said Sparkyscarab9/7/16 5:32 pm
                                                                 Re: "You ARE Gorilla" said Sparkythebruce09/8/16 9:35 am

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