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Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goi
By:Quirel
Date: 3/6/15 4:38 am
In Response To: Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goi (General Vagueness)

: Really? Where have they
: been oppressed? One example is enough, but two would be great.

That's not what I meant. I did not say "Heterophobia exists because trans- and gay people oppress cis- and straight people", I said "Bigotry exists regardless of whether the bigots have the institutional power to oppress the targets of their hatred."

: That said, when people see opposition and hatred all the time (whether it's
: really like that or not), can you blame them? I mean, of course you can
: blame them, but it's understandable to want to hate right back and respond
: with hate.

I understand.
But I still blame them.

: Interesting, changing that word makes you feel that way, which implies as it
: stands it doesn't.

Then you're reading too much into it.
Bradford's article on its own is annoying and fairly stupid, but the "Whites are oppressors" message has traction thanks to intersectionalism. The switch from "White cis-males" to "Jews" nicely recontextualizes the issue from a social problem to a personal problem, and also pushes the article into Joseph Goebbels territory.

: The reasoning for the case you bring up seems dumb, but your interpretation
: of it seems off.
: I keep seeing this, and with all due respect, I don't know why people don't
: seem to get to get, and I also don't get why no one ever seems to explain
: it.

You get a job because you're qualified for it. Not because you balance out the company's EEOC form, not because you have the right politics, not because you glued your lips to the boss's ass, not because the boss is comfortable with your skin color or what you do in your bedroom. That is how it should work.

What she did was political grandstanding. She went out there in front of Paizo's community and asked them to skew their hiring standards to help minorities. If Paizo ignored her but hired a woman anyway because she was qualified, there would always be that doubt that she was hired because of her sex. And that woman (Wish I could remember her name) would have trumpeted it as Paizo making a stand for equality, even if Paizo didn't want to get involved in politics in the first place. If they hired a man, I can see her posting a statement congratulating the new employee but professing disappointment that Paizo isn't working to further equality.

The messageboards on Paizo's website are their lifeblood. Paizo may sell gamebooks in hobby shops and bookstores, but the bulk of their sales and their product feedback come through that forum. That website is where Pathfinder Society is managed. That's where many of their hardcore, paying customers frequent. And she put the company on the spot in front of those customers.

Like I said, it's like asking someone if they'd beaten their wife lately. Even if the answer is a solid 'no', damage is done.

That was a statement that should have been delivered in private. Or better yet, she should have highlighted minority tabletop game developers who are creative, talented, and in need of a job at a big-name publisher.

: Seriously? People do say the very same things about Jews, and Muslims, and
: black people, and literally every other group. Some things are less
: intuitive in certain combinations so you don't see them as much, but you
: can rest assured every racial, religious, sexual, etc. insult you can
: think of has been applied to every group with more than a couple thousand
: people in it. If you didn't know that, you've lived a sheltered life,
: especially as far as the Internet is concerned.

It's not that I've lived a sheltered life. It was simple exasperation that the people fighting for fairness and equality and representation were resorting to ad-hominems and gross generalizations.

: \_/ Not everyone's brave when it comes to their physical safety, even if
: they're fine with every manner of verbal attacks and their name becoming a
: punchline. (That was a shrug BTW.)

Or maybe she felt that forcing people to go through a search, at cost to the university, before listening to her speech would put them in the proper siege mentality. Shannon Watts would kill for that kind of opportunity.


Messages In This Thread

Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Grizzlei3/1/15 4:55 pm
     Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Quirel3/1/15 5:10 pm
           Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Grizzlei3/1/15 5:14 pm
                 Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Hyokin3/1/15 6:01 pm
                       Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Grizzlei3/1/15 6:20 pm
                             Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Morhek3/1/15 11:07 pm
                                   Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Quirel3/2/15 2:46 am
                                         Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Grizzlei3/2/15 2:51 am
                                               Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Quirel3/2/15 2:56 am
                                                     Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Quirel3/2/15 2:57 am
                 Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Quirel3/2/15 4:18 am
                       Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Grizzlei3/2/15 5:46 am
                             Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Quirel3/2/15 4:22 pm
                                   Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*Archilen3/3/15 7:17 am
           This.Archilen3/2/15 1:27 am
                 Re: This.Quirel3/2/15 4:21 am
                       Re: This.Grizzlei3/2/15 5:35 am
                             Re: This.Quirel3/2/15 5:48 am
                                   Re: This.Grizzlei3/2/15 5:55 am
                                         Re: This.Quirel3/2/15 6:02 am
                                               Re: This.Grizzlei3/2/15 6:09 am
                                                     Re: This.Quirel3/2/15 6:22 am
                                                           Re: This.Grizzlei3/2/15 6:25 am
                                                                 This thing that we do.Quirel3/2/15 4:23 pm
     Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*TDSpiral3/1/15 11:20 pm
           *SP* *GIF* *TARDIS*Grizzlei3/2/15 6:04 am
     This kinda bugged me *SP*Grizzlei3/2/15 2:40 am
           Some thoughts and stuffs *SP*Grizzlei3/2/15 5:19 am
                 Nothing is sacred.Revenant19883/2/15 9:51 am
                       Re: Nothing is sacred.robofin1173/2/15 2:07 pm
                       Valar Morghulis *SP*Grizzlei3/2/15 2:38 pm
                             Re: Valar Morghulis *SP*General Vagueness3/2/15 11:36 pm
           Re: This kinda bugged me *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect)3/2/15 2:24 pm
                 Re: This kinda bugged me *SP*Grizzlei3/2/15 2:48 pm
                       Re: +1Hyokin3/2/15 4:29 pm
                             Re: +1Grizzlei3/2/15 5:32 pm
                                   Re: +1Hyokin3/2/15 5:53 pm
                             Re: +1Cody Miller3/2/15 7:06 pm
                                   About that... *GIF* *NSFW*Grizzlei3/2/15 7:20 pm
                                         For real?Cody Miller3/2/15 8:12 pm
                                               Four reels *IMG*Grizzlei3/2/15 8:22 pm
                                                     Re: Four reels *IMG*Hyokin3/2/15 8:24 pm
                                                     Re: Four reels *IMG*Cody Miller3/2/15 8:26 pm
                                                           Five reels *IMG*Grizzlei3/2/15 8:34 pm
                                                                 Re: Five reels *IMG*Cody Miller3/2/15 8:42 pm
                                                                       Re: Five reels *IMG*Grizzlei3/2/15 8:56 pm
                                                                             Re: Five reels *IMG*Cody Miller3/2/15 9:06 pm
                                                                                   Re: Five reels *IMG*Grizzlei3/2/15 9:21 pm
                                                                                         Re: You're my hero, Grizzlei. *NM*Hyokin3/2/15 9:30 pm
                                                                                         Re: Five reels *IMG*Cody Miller3/2/15 9:41 pm
                                                                                               Re: Five reels *IMG*Grizzlei3/2/15 9:58 pm
                                                                                                     Re: Five reels *IMG*Quirel3/3/15 4:08 am
                                   Re: +1Hyokin3/2/15 7:33 pm
                             Re: +1munky-0583/4/15 10:45 am
                                   Re: +1Grizzlei3/4/15 11:56 am
                                         Re: +1Hyokin3/4/15 1:49 pm
                                   Re: +1General Vagueness3/5/15 1:53 am
                             Re: +1 - I'm backTuna3/4/15 2:55 pm
                                   Re: +1 - I'm backQuirel3/4/15 4:24 pm
                                   Re: +1 - I'm backJoe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)3/5/15 8:50 am
                                         Re: +1 - I'm backTuna3/5/15 10:59 am
                                         Re: +1 - I'm backbluerunner3/5/15 6:40 pm
                                               Halo CE shottyLawnmower1723/5/15 11:41 pm
                                               Re: +1 - I'm backJoe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)3/6/15 3:43 am
                                                     Re: +1 - I'm backCaneCutter3/6/15 11:31 am
                                               Re: +1 - I'm backmunky-0583/6/15 6:27 am
                                                     Re: +1 - I'm backCaneCutter3/6/15 11:30 am
                                         Re: +1 - I'm backKermit3/6/15 6:36 pm
                       Re: This kinda bugged me *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect)3/2/15 8:01 pm
                             Re: This kinda bugged me *SP*uberfoop3/2/15 8:14 pm
                             Re: This kinda bugged me *SP*Cody Miller3/2/15 8:27 pm
                                   Re: This kinda bugged me *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect)3/3/15 6:54 am
           HBO has officially gone full 343. RIP. HBO.munky-0583/3/15 4:07 am
                 Edit...munky-0583/3/15 4:09 am
                 *Reads post*Quirel3/3/15 4:10 am
                 Re: You're my hero, Korny. *NM*Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)3/3/15 4:17 am
                 343: Now featuring characterizationGrizzlei3/3/15 12:45 pm
                       Re: 343: Now featuring characterizationPostmortem3/4/15 1:02 am
                             Re: 343: Now featuring characterizationGrizzlei3/4/15 1:40 am
                                   I am optimistic about where this thread is going.Quirel3/4/15 6:19 am
                                         +1Archilen3/4/15 7:26 am
                                               Re: +1munky-0583/4/15 11:21 am
                                                     Zip.Quirel3/4/15 4:24 pm
                                               Re: +1Quirel3/4/15 4:27 pm
                                         This. *NM*Ragashingo3/4/15 5:54 pm
                                         Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goiGeneral Vagueness3/5/15 1:37 am
                                               Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goiQuirel3/5/15 3:32 pm
                                                     Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goiGeneral Vagueness3/5/15 8:17 pm
                                                           Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goiArchilen3/6/15 7:14 am
                                                                 Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goiscarab3/6/15 12:59 pm
                                                                 Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goiQuirel3/6/15 2:40 pm
                                               Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goiQuirel3/6/15 4:38 am
                                                     Re: I am optimistic about where this thread is goiGeneral Vagueness3/6/15 8:04 pm
                                         +1 *NM*Kermit3/5/15 8:53 am
                                   part ARevenant19883/4/15 12:20 pm
                                         Re: part AGrizzlei3/4/15 12:51 pm
                                               Re: part Amunky-0583/4/15 1:10 pm
                                                     Re: part Akanbo3/4/15 1:24 pm
                                                     Re: part AGrizzlei3/4/15 1:42 pm
                                                           Re: part AQuirel3/4/15 4:35 pm
                                   part BRevenant19883/4/15 12:45 pm
                                         Your two posts need to be laminated and displayed.munky-0583/4/15 1:02 pm
                                         Re: part BGrizzlei3/4/15 1:25 pm
                             Re: 343: Now featuring characterizationQuirel3/4/15 3:46 am
                                   Re: 343: Now featuring characterizationPostmortem3/4/15 9:18 am
                 Re: HBO has officially gone full 343. RIP. HBO.*OTGeneral Vagueness3/3/15 8:02 pm
           Noble Six was always male.Celestis3/4/15 8:08 pm
                 Re: Noble Six was always male.Grizzlei3/4/15 8:33 pm
                 Good find. *NM*Quirel3/6/15 2:41 pm
     Finished it *SP*Archilen3/2/15 12:46 pm
           Can you answer for me a question?Revenant19883/2/15 12:53 pm
                 Is Half-Life 3 out yet? *GIF*Grizzlei3/2/15 1:02 pm
                       othankgod *NM*Revenant19883/2/15 1:02 pm
                             Re: othankgodGrizzlei3/2/15 1:08 pm
                 Re: Can you answer for me a question?Archilen3/2/15 1:02 pm
           Finished it as well *SP*davidfuchs3/2/15 1:51 pm
                 Re: Finished it as well *SP*Archilen3/3/15 7:12 am
                       Re: Finished it as well *SP*davidfuchs3/3/15 4:54 pm
                             Re: Finished it as well *SP*Postmortem3/4/15 1:12 am
                                   Re: Finished it as well *SP*Archilen3/4/15 7:18 am
     Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST?MacGyver103/2/15 4:32 pm
           Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST?p bro3/2/15 5:06 pm
           Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST?Anton17923/4/15 3:48 pm
                 Good to see you around. *NM*Quirel3/4/15 3:51 pm
                       Re: Good to see you around.Anton17923/4/15 5:20 pm
                 Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST?MacGyver103/4/15 6:55 pm
                       Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST?Anton17923/4/15 8:04 pm
                             Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST?Archilen3/5/15 3:52 am
                       Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST?Quirel3/9/15 6:34 am
           Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST? *Long*Quirel3/7/15 6:27 am
                 Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST? *Long*Anton17923/7/15 11:59 am
                       Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST? *Long*Quirel3/9/15 6:50 am
                 Re: Why not Spartan-IVs instead of ODST? *Long*Archilen3/9/15 9:59 am
     I wish this came out 3 years ago *SP*Dervish3/2/15 8:44 pm
           Re: I wish this came out 3 years ago *SP*davidfuchs3/2/15 10:44 pm
     Re: Halo: New Blood excerpt *SP*General Vagueness3/2/15 10:58 pm
     Briefly read excerptserpx3/3/15 9:22 am
     Re: New Blood - In one image: *GIF*Hyokin3/3/15 12:50 pm
     The closest Halo's gotten to Nylund since Nylund.Postmortem3/4/15 1:36 am
           A response with kinda sorta major-ish minor *SP*Grizzlei3/4/15 1:55 am
           Re: The closest Halo's gotten to Nylund since NyluArchilen3/4/15 6:36 am

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