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Re: Brief followup
Date: 10/15/13 10:24 am
In Response To: Re: Brief followup (Quirel)

Ok I can't believe I'm resorting to a G.V. here...

:: Why is it not a smart move? If they hit their intended demographic, it was a
:: smart move for them, whether we like it or not. If their sales reflect
:: what/who they target for, then I don't know who the demographic is (why
:: would you ask me to point to the demographic? sales are sales), but it
:: exists. And that's the point.

General Vagueness:
: Well then you didn't really make your point the first time. Also I don't see
: why you think they made a smart move when you don't personally like it and
: sales, enthusiasm, and public awareness haven't been anything out of the
: ordinary.

I didn't say "I think they made a smart move". I was saying that if they felt it was a smart move, and they hit their target, then it was a smart move for them. (side point: what don't I personally like? I personally like the game, but I have a wider appreciation than some; was I their target demographic? I don't know. Presumably they were hoping for more people who, while loving the originals, would still appreciate this apparent change in direction).

: Pardon me, but I'm going to try counting the number of circular logic loops
: in your argument.
: -343i must be shooting for a new demographic, because they wouldn't change so
: much about Halo unless they were shooting for a new demographic.
: -If they attracted that demographic, it was a smart move, because reaching
: out to a new demographic was a smart move.

: -I don't know what this demographic is, but it must exist because 343i was
: trying to appeal to them.

That's the problem: I didn't say reaching a new demo was a smart move (see below: I effectively said I don't know if it was), I said smart move "for them" - probably not worded the best. They felt it was a smart move. They hit their intended target. (Well, I suppose only they really know if they accomplished their intended release goals; if they are happy with the results)

:: There's lots of things they could have done. I'm sure there are stories that
:: could have been told that we'd love, perhaps even the non-story-driven
:: gamer, and certainly there are amazing writers out there they could have
:: worked with to provide that experience. Hindsight... They put out what
:: they were happy with *shrug*

General Vagueness:
: I don't know the details, but going by the post-mortem they did of the game a
: while back (at GDC, I think), they think they at least failed to make the
: Prometheans lively or engaging or three-dimensional or particularly fun to
: fight. That kind of goes back around though-- if they know they messed up,
: they don't need us to keep telling them.

Right, they could still be happy with the game sales, even if they know now (primarilky, if only, from public response) the more significant criticisms of their development choices. I think I watched the GDC post-mortem once, a while back, so I don't remember the precise sentiments they expressed in regards to what. But can they be happy about their game release, and still realize some design decisions could have been better? Sure! Things to take to heart for the next release.

: Here's another question: was Halo 4 a calculated attempt to attract a new
: audience, or is it the product of a company suffering from the growing
: pains of Halo 2 development-era Bungie and the kid-in-a-candystore
: restraint of Ion Storm? Because Halo 4 does not strike me as being
: carefully crafted with a coherent design philosophy.

Dunno. But I liked it. I wasn't in love with it, but I liked it. That's enough for me. It doesn't matter to me so much -how or why- they came to create the game they did, only that they create a game (and continue the franchise) in a way that I'll enjoy. And hopefully for a broad audience, so it doesn't fizzle out to the point of TPTB closing the franchise. =/

:::: Again, not that any of this is bad - it's just different. I don't know if
:::: there's some alternate universe where Halo storytelling methodology and
:::: tactics could have remained unchanged and yet still provide a thriving and
:::: popular Halo universe and franchise, or if this is just a natural, and
:::: essential move, in order to keep Halo thriving among the changing gaming
:::: culture and generations.
::: Wait. Were you talking about the story direction 343i took, and how it was
::: close to a reboot? Or were you talking about something else? Like the
::: visuals?
:: Either/or? Both? *shrug* Both are endlessly debated in Halo forums. Both are
:: a matter of opinion.

General Vagueness:
: what? he asked which one you were talking about in that sentence

: Sigh. Which. One. Were you talking about?

Both! The whole experience. The difference between the former and the latter. My paragraph discussed one thing. Your response separated them. Someone can like one and hate the other, or vice versa. That wasn't my point (beyond "both are a matter of opinion"). My point was that 343 Halo is clearly a different direction than Bungie Halo. Different direction is not objectively bad. To 343, if they have a goal and they hit it, it was a success, for them. Even if not necessarily for us (a segment of the population, not the gaming population as a whole).

Read my paragraph again. I claimed nothing except "I don't know" if there's another direction that would have been better for the Halo franchise on the whole; whether it would have fizzled if they kept the same direction, or thrived more than it is now with a new direction. Who knows. The only point is - it is where it is now, love it or hate it. There is a strong community that loves it. If that was their intention, then we can't convince them they "failed" unless they come to think that the community of fans they left behind, as it were, are essential to their long term plans.

So, maybe, in Halo 5, they'll reconcile and release a game that will appeal to a wider audience. Maybe they'll have 'better' writing. Or maybe they'll just keep going the way they're going (the COD-style argument, eg). We'll see soon enough.

: Fire Brian Reed, hire John Ringo.

heh, don't know enough about them as writers to make a statement one way or the other. Let alone call their career options :P

Messages In This Thread

One way Halo has changedthebruce010/1/13 10:23 am
     Re: One way Halo has changedMacGyver1010/1/13 1:06 pm
     Re: One way Halo has changedLeviathan10/1/13 1:14 pm
           Re: One way Halo has changedCody Miller10/2/13 11:34 am
                 Re: One way Halo has changedMacGyver1010/2/13 3:21 pm
                       Re: LOVEthebruce010/2/13 4:21 pm
                             Re: LOVECody Miller10/2/13 10:49 pm
                                   Re: LOVELeviathan10/2/13 11:16 pm
                                         Re: I want to *Like* this comment so much *NM*thebruce010/3/13 9:23 am
                             Re: LOVEAvateur10/2/13 11:17 pm
                       Re: One way Halo has changedCody Miller10/2/13 10:38 pm
           Re: One way Halo has changedscarab10/3/13 4:47 am
     Re: One way Halo has changedserpx10/1/13 9:01 pm
           Re: One way Halo has changeduberfoop10/1/13 9:29 pm
                 He's been to New York - he knows... *NM*scarab10/3/13 4:52 am
     Re: One way Halo has changedDervish10/1/13 9:26 pm
     Re: One way Halo has changedArchilen10/2/13 12:28 am
           Re: One way Halo has changedZackDark10/2/13 1:19 am
                 I've recently re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-visited itscarab10/3/13 4:33 am
     Re: One way Halo has changedQuirel10/2/13 3:16 am
     Re: One way Halo has changedThe Lionheart10/2/13 12:41 pm
     Re: One way Halo has changedArithmomaniac10/2/13 1:09 pm
     Re: Brief followupthebruce010/2/13 6:06 pm
           Re: Brief followupQuirel10/6/13 1:09 pm
                 Re: Brief followupthebruce010/8/13 10:51 am
                       Re: Brief followupGeneral Vagueness10/13/13 6:50 pm
                       Re: Brief followupQuirel10/13/13 9:11 pm
                             Re: Brief followupGeneral Battuta10/13/13 10:24 pm
                                   Re: Brief followupQuirel10/13/13 10:31 pm
                                         Re: Brief followupGeneral Battuta10/13/13 10:39 pm
                                               Re: Brief followupQuirel10/13/13 10:55 pm
                             Re: Brief followupthebruce010/15/13 10:24 am
                                   Re: Brief followupQuirel10/19/13 9:50 pm
     Re: One way Halo has changedPerseusSpartacus10/3/13 3:25 pm

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