: Man, I went away for about sixteen hours and this thread
: just... evolved. Okay, I'm leaving out the quotes in
: this response because I want to speak to a number of
: points that were made above.
Well, at least it is not like it was a few months ago. You know, when we had fifty posts an hour;)
: 1) I'd tend to agree that the flavor text has to refer to
: the most recent fall of Stoneheim, though my evidence
: is circumstantial. It goes like this: we know that the
: fall referred to here happened only hours after the
: fall of Myrgard. I tend to doubt that every time one
: city falls, the other goes with it--that they both
: went within hours suggests to me the blitzkrieg-type
: tactics that Balor employed. Secondly, the other
: flavor texts that make mention of Dwarven history
: (except the ones referring to the Smiths and the
: Cultists and the Mausoleum, which seem to be
: associated with the "old school" dwarf
: names) all seem to refer to recent events--the
: destruction of the Godhead, the new lives in the west,
: and so on (I'm sure there are other exceptions--let me
: know). Finally, the fact that the twin falls happened
: within hours of each other suggests a high level of
: communications technology--either radio or, at the
: very least, a series of signal fires such as the
: ancient Greeks used to send back news of the fall of
: Troy. We know that dwarven technology develops at a
: very rapid pace (we go from molotov cocktails to
: balloon bombardment to very advanced firearms and
: artillery in a couple of centuries, advancements that
: human scientists consider "awe-inspiring to
: behold" or whatever it says in the mortar flavor
: text), so I doubt the dwarves would have had such good
: signal technology a thousand years ago or more. Like I
: said, all circumstantial, but...
I am not sure if the dwarves have to start from scratch after the passing of the dark like most of the other races. Somewhere I read that (and dont ask me where I got this cause I cant remember in the slightest) somewere in Stoneheim there is a collection of every major invention the dwarves ever created. So perhapes the dwarves were working on prototypes of morters before the Ghols over ran their citys, and when they returned they just picked up where they left off.
And as far as the bit about the dwarves not having signel tech a thousand years ago; well that can go in which ever direction you want depending if you execpt the idea of a dwarven under way. By the way I am now convinced they had something of that nature, but will say why later.
: 2) Speaking of dwarven technology... this is more of a
: general point, raised by the question of how much
: magic the dwarves use. Now, it seems to me that the
: dwarves are the most pragmatic and cynical of all the
: races. It's part of what makes them such good
: scientists. I can't see them eschewing a whole branch
: of physics (magic) on basic principles. While other
: races might be better at it--more in touch with the
: One Dream or whatever--the dwarves would certainly
: take advantage of whatever magic they could get their
: hands on. We also have some loose evidence that they
: used to be more heavily into it than they are
: now--specifically the fact that the Dwarf tags include
: a number of magical effects, such as a magic fireball
: and a magic contrail (never used, but left in for some
: reason). Also, the recent developments in Dwarven tech
: have all been science-based while the oldest marvels
: (the Tain, the Pathfinder Ring, this Maul of the
: Dwarven Kings, and so on) were much more magical. It
: strikes me that the Dwarves are/were perfectly
: comfortable with magic, however that as the years pass
: and their scientists learn more and more they prefer
: to use the predictable, repeatable technologies (our
: science) than the raw elemental forces (magic) and
: therefore are moving beyond what Humans and fir'Bolgs
: are capable of.
Yes, I agree with you on this point. The humans and fir'bolg have relyed on magic for so long they no longer seek to advance in a technological direction. Instead they let the dorks figure out cool new ways to kill things and just buy the products off of them.
: Just a thought.
Just one?;)
: 3) Hey, while we're here... this possible link between
: the Deceiver and the Spider Cults brings me back to a
: very old point--my belief that Myrdred was Connacht's
: favorite Avatara. I can hear you groaning already, but
: think about it: if Myrdred was associated with the
: cultists that would almost certainly have to place him
: in Muirthemne at the right time to become one of
: Connacht's lieutenants and a peer of Damas, right?
: Right? Okay, let me know why I'm wrong.
I think Myrdrid may have had conections with the cult, but he in all likely hood was not a member. Cults demand compleat loylty and dedication, something the Deceaver has no experiance with. Also, it is importent to remember that Connocht attemted to exterminat the cult in the end; I doubt that Myrdrid would have surrvived if he was actuly a cultest. Though I suppose he could have been a spy for Connocht.
: 4) Finally--one of the reasons this thread interests me
: so much is that I'm currently working on a new level
: based on, yes, dwarves. Specifically new and untested
: dwarf technologies (the objective is to retake a
: fallen dwarf research station--can you say Ghol
: Pathfinders?). Originally it was going to be called
: "The 17th Stoneheim Irregulars", thought I
: may have to change that now (since it appears there
: isn't currently a Stoneheim for them to be based out
: of). Anyway, I have a few questions to help with this
: project: a) Were the two cities independent
: city-states, or was one of them a capital of the
: Dwarven kingdom? The flavor texts are maddeningly
: vague, speaking of Ephors and Archons, which would
: seem to suggest the former, but we also know there
: were Dwarven Kings, which would suggest the latter--or
: did the Dwarves go over to some kind of Metropolitan
: Republic in the roughly recent past? Similarly, how
: regimented are Dwarven armies? I think I can get away
: with a Dwarven Captain (with, of course, a white
: tunic), but are their Dwarven Generals? Field
: Marshalls? Generalissimos?
I think that both citys were "capitals of the dwarven kingdome" before they fell to the ghols. Maybe the two citys concentrated on differnt aspects of dwarven interest, with Stoneheim consentrating on the technological and Myrgard concentrating on the monitary aspects of trade. I think that Myrgard will be the one capital if the duffs ever retake Stoneheim though.
As to the question on the dwarven regulers. I think their regular armys were all but exterminated when the citys were over run; only the best units got away relitavely intact. The pathfinders and the Air rangers. As advanced as the dwarves are I cant imagen them not haveing a well developed army, though it may not be similer to Western human disiplens.
: b) Part of the level is going to be looking for the wreck
: of the flagship of the Dwarven navy, the H.A.S (His
: Archon's Ship) Irascible. I won't give it away, but
: this is supposed to be a bit of comic relief--I mean,
: a Dwarven Navy? Then it occurred to me that there is,
: after all, a Dwarven Air Force and even, it seems,
: Dwarven Airborne Rangers. Is there any evidence for a
: naval presence?
I dont know of any evidence for such a force, though I would not rule it out. After all, Myrgard is fairly close to an outlet, and it is much easyer as well as cheaper to transpoert heavy exports (such as firearms and cannon) by sea. Sence untill resently the Pirats of Leix were a real threat I think a small Dwarven navie probobly existed.
: c) Finally--and don't worry, I won't get anal over this
: like I did last time--how far does one imagine Dwarven
: tech going in the fifty years after Soulblighter bites
: it at Tharsis? Would people buy Dwarven Radios
: (specifically radio detonation of satchel charges?).
: How about walking, constantly-exploding robots? It's a
: fantasy genre and a not-so-serious map so I suppose I
: can get away with whatever I want, but I want to keep
: the level of technology relatively consistent. On a
: similar note--I found a repulsion field in
: Weirdobodomons and I seem to remember that one of the
: old Asylum Units used a force field. Anyone mind me
: using something similar in my level? I was able to
: figure out how such a thing works on my own, so I'm
: not really stealing anything, but I don't want to step
: on any toes.
Alrighy, first off on millitary tech. I would say that the duffs would have much improved morter technology fifty years from now. They probobly would have developed a powerfull, short range firearm (can you say shotgun?) as well as improved gernades. I would not put it past them to have developed effected field cannon.
As far as the force field idea, I think thats a little advanced for only fifty years of resurch, even for dwarves.
Of cource that might change if they have aready taken Stoneheim, and from the tital it sounds as if they have done that.
You may want to give the Ghols some new weapons too, after all they were in possesion of Stoneheim for many years, they probobly picked up a few things.
: I'm really enjoying this thread. Let's keep it going!
OK!
Back to the idea on the under way. I think that if the dwarves did not have such a network they would have been exterminated. I mean, how was it possable for so many dwarves to escape when all the evidence says that their kingdome was over run in weeks? As swift as the ghols are they should have been able to run down and eat evey refugie that flead from them. The answer, the only answer that I can come up with, is that they had a vast network of underground highways that allowed them to escape to a safe distece, perhaps even to the Provence. Thats way their are more dwarves than there should be, they did not lose ten thousand at stoneheim, nor the entire popluation of Myrgard. Their reguler army probobly bought time with their lives, allowing most of the civilan population to escape; and in the case of stonheim that was not enough and a few dedicated individuals, perhaps no more than a hundred destroyed the barbican and saved ten thousand of their kind.
Well, thats all...for now.
Drunken Ghol
