: I know you don't like letting go of a theory until
: someone provides incontrovertible contradicting
: evidence, but in this case that's impossible, isn't
: it? I disagree but I doubt I'll be able to convince
: you.
I must admit that I really don't believe in my "Shiver isn't Ravanna" theory; I defended it pretty much because I instinctively defend any theory that someone claims is absolutely impossible. But that theory had workable competitors (such as that Ravanna died during the Great War and was reborn as Shiver), which I don't think is the case for this one.
: For whatever reason they decided to say in GURPS that the
: D is still alive, which means he has to survive
: Shiver's death. Okay, we watched him get blown to
: smithereens. Does this mean he was a double all along?
: I don't think so. Maybe he wanted to fake his own
: death so he merely teleported out at the last second
: and teleported some Myrk guts to where he had been
: standing--who's going to bother id'ing the resulting
: mess? This seems more likely an explanation to me
: (okay--go ahead and open that level in Loathing, find
: out that yes, those are Deceiver parts--it still
: doesn't say "Deceiver Double Parts", does
: it?).
Not only does it say they're Deceiver parts, but they look like Deceiver parts. Bald head, staff, and all. And the argument over whether the Deceiver survived Shiver's explosion was going for a while before GURPS came out. It was initiated by date problems with the journal entries.
: As for him not having his full powers in the game (the
: same way Shiver appears not to have hers, even though
: that spark attack is definitely called a "whisper
: dream" in Fear), I think that's just a gameplay
: issue. They are not different powers, notice, just
: weaker than you'd expect. Well, if he could charm an
: entire army of maul with one quick spell and cloudkill
: another army of thrall at the same time... how fun
: would that be (after the initial giggle factor wore
: off)?
True, though GURPS made mention of the fact that Shiver had lost most of her power, as it did not for The Deceiver.
: Finally, if it's just a double frozen in the ice, then
: why would the scepter work on it? Surely it's the real
: scepter--and it would definitely be attuned to the
: Deceiver himself and not a hurriedly-chosen lookalike.
: It doesn't give the zerk the power to charm or
: cloudkill... your theory about the D using his powers
: long-range is interesting, but in the end I think it's
: a cop-out. If he could charm just one shade from half
: a continent away he could still do in most of the Dark
: in an afternoon.
I don't know if it's half a continent away. Maybe he's a mile away. Maybe he's hiding in a hollow log somewhere. And I'm sure he couldn't charm a huge chunk of another Fallen Lords' armies (which were primarily mindless undead, immune to conversion anyway) without them noticing and coming after him, or blocking his long-distance power, or informing Balor, .
: Oh, and btw, if the Deceiver's been running around free
: for sixty years, what's he been up to? He doesn't seem
: like the kind of guy to me who'd take a six decade
: vacation, not while SB and Shiver are still standing
: upright. Not to mention those missing Fallen Lords
: whose fates are unclear...
Well, now we know why those Fallen Lords are still missing.
"My name is Myrdred Montoya. You bruised my ego. Prepare to die." (and no, that's not serious)
Look, I know my theory has some unlikely elements. But that's not a good enough reason to discard it. A different theory, *more plausible,* has to be advanced. The theory you put forth here (and I applaud your creativity and rapidity of thought, by the way) requires that the Deceiver find a double to get blown up; that he be able to create an instantaneously-triggered teleportation spell with no visible special effects; and that he, for some reason, wish that the Light temporarily think him dead (which is the same motive I gave, only it makes less sense here because he apparently shows himself to be unharmed immediately thereafter.) How is this less of a stretch than my theory? I'm following Holmes here--eliminating the impossible and accepting what's left, however improbable. It may be completely of track, but until Myth III comes out it's the best I can do.
--SiliconDream
