: If you mean that there's no evidence Alric wasn't taking
: Shiver into account....I'm sure when he said that the
: Fallen Lords would become powerless, he didn't mean to
: imply that they would lose all hope of being
: resurrected. Shiver, indeed, WAS powerless in a
: sense...she couldn't do a thing, only her spirit was
: barely alive. It took the combined powers of a
: recuperated and newly powerful Soulblighter plus
: Tramsist's mirror to bring her back.
Rabican defeated Shiver and killed her. Shiver's death had nothing to do with Balor's falling. The two events took place almost a year apart.
: In any case, you began this theory partially on the
: premise that Alric had been given bad information.
: Alric said what he learned. As long as I can show that
: there is no reason to suspect that what he learned was
: false, there isn't any reason we should think it was
: false, i.e., simplest explanation probably true. So,
: if we're both speculating, and I got the narrator on
: my side, I'm probably right.
You have the narrator on your side? Hmm... I don't think so.
And, we're not really speculating. There is no evidence that Balor's death weakened the Fallen Lords. Shiver was killed by Rabican. The Watcher was defeated by the Legion. The Deceiver was wounded by the Watcher and the Legion reportedly found him and forced him into falling in the heavy Dramus current. Without his sceptar, the Deceiver is powerless. He derives his power from the staff and once it is lost his sorcery is reduced. Balor's death is not tied with this. As for Soulblighter, he fled to the Untamed Lands and learned new skills. He was obviously not weakened if he could change into his crow form and fly hundreds of miles south.
: Remember, no way to tell. We're not around to see, and,
: besides, Balor has fled. As for the D, though, here's
: an indication that he actually did fall AFTER Balor
: (posted above by Wasp): "The King has sent word
: to Twelve Motion Jeweled Skull, a Journeyman who
: served under him during his campaigns east of the
: Cloudspine, in hopes that he has some knowledge of
: what became of The Deceiver after Balor's
: destruction."
The qoute could mean anything.
: Look at that: "what became of The Deceiver AFTER
: Balor's destruction." Doesn't prove much, and,
: obviously, the Deceiver's defeat was largely due to
: the fight he had with the Watcher, but Balor's death
: might have contributed to his weakness. No reason to
: say I'm positively right, but just no reason to say
: I'm wrong, either, means we should take what Alric
: says--that the Fallen Lords would become powerless
: after Balor's fall--at face value.
Again, his weakness was brought on by the Watcher and his loss of his staff.
: No, I never said Balor just up front told Alric. The
: original theory I had going had to do with mind
: reading. I've just become more open minded. I realize
: now that it didn't even have to be Balor who told
: Alric (though it probably was). I am convinced that
: 1. The real Balor was present
: 2. Alric did, indeed, learn of the info "by
: chance" (as the narrator says) so that neither
: did the Deceiver make some sort of deal with him (and
: I've got plenty of other reasons why the D didn't make
: a deal with Alric in the above thread)
Your "evidence" above is not evidence. Just speculation on how the characters would act and how they think based on facts.
: Frankly, I don't know the exact nature of how Balor has
: bound the Fallen Lords. What I'm pretty sure of is
: this--it 1. Meant they must become evil (a big issue
: with Myrdred), 2. Must not attack Balor
: 3. Must work towards the destruction of the Light.
: He might not control them much more than this, but
: there's certainly something there for Alric to pick
: up, whether with his magical senses, or because of
: some interaction between the D and Balor, or some
: passing comment.
Well, the binding you describe above is what I had said. It gives no mention of any power flow between the Lords and Balor. Are ytou dropping this now?
: Same thing I just said. Also, whatever happened between
: the Watcher and the Deceiver at Tyr, nothing happened
: between them again for many years. Why the pause?
: Possibly because Balor put his foot down and doled out
: some justice.
The pause was for a little over ten years. That's nothing for mages who have been alive for thousand(s) of years. Maybe things did happen but the journalist didn't record anything because he hadn't started writing yet. We do know that the Deceiver was looking for the Watcher's arm for over a year. But, possibly, Balor (who is a general, remember) told them to stay away from each other and ordered them to attack different cities. Their armies probably never came within eye sight of each other after Tyr and right up until Seven Gates.
: It's just one of many ideas. Certainly, he might be able
: to pick up on some vibes being given off by Balor,
: especially if another Fallen Lord, like the Deceiver,
: was nearby.
: Alric may not specify how he learned "by
: chance" of the power relationship, but that's not
: enough reason to suspect a deal between Alric and the
: Deceiver (which, again, I address in the above
: thread).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The deal was one of many ideas. The idea I was leaning to was the Deceiver slipped Alric some info in hopes of breaking up this war and giving him some peace. The Deceiver wanted a return of the Cath Bruig and the death of the Watcher.
Perhaps the Deceiver felt he had no hope of getting the Watcher's arm back in the pass, so he turned around and attacked him, halting his progress and allowing the Legion to move across Seven Gates. The Deceiver cared more about the fall of the Watcher than the destruction of the Legion, and that is completely obvious with his action.
Perhaps he was buying time for the Legion to prepare the bone to be used on the Watcher. After all, they needed that bow in "The Road North" and if the Watcher got close enough to the Legion group that had the arm, they would have no idea what to do with it and he would surly crush them and have his arm back for good. The Deceiver could not risk this. He wanted the Watcher dead and if that meant sacrificing his army so the Watcher would fall later, then he obviously didn't mind. The end justified the means.
Chris
