: Just thought I'd throw my two cents into an already
: horribly snarled argument: What evidence does anyone
: have for the Deceiver being able to take on Balor's
: form? His name doesn't count. As far as I can tell
: this is an ability that only appears in Chimera, and
: there is in the hands of a completely different
: character. The Deceiver's power is charming, not
: shapeshifting.
As Dan has said, the Deceiver could have uses an armor or convinced Alric he was seeing Balor. Shiver created the illusion of Moagim for Rabican, though he saw through it, the Deceiver could potentially have the ability to create an illusion of Balor.
: Another point: the army Alric and company fight getting
: out of the barrier is weak, yes, but I don't think
: intentionally.
: A) gameplay would be sacrificed if you had to fight your
: way out through platoon after platoon of undead. Okay,
: call that a cop-out if you want, I have a B.
Sure, cop-out :)
: B) The whole point of sending five champions instead of a
: larger force (and I think this is pretty explicit) is
: that they can get in behind the lines, almost
: unnoticed, and strike before the Deceiver can bring
: his main force back. The rather paltry guard detail
: (which includes Shades who are, in terms of attack
: strength, as powerful as Alric himself!) is basically
: just a home guard. The Deceiver is smart but not
: infallible. He has his army waiting by the passes,
: expecting the Light to mount a massive push to free
: Alric. They don't expect a guerilla raid because the
: Light has never tried anything like that before (as
: always, if I'm wrong, tell me).
No, remember, the rescue takes place in November, *just* as the passes were beginning to be covered by snow. The Legion will not make large trips, with massive troop movements, across the Cloudpsine because of the potential for massive troop losses.
Plus, if the Legion pushes across the Cloudspine, the Watcher is right on their rear flank and they would be pincered.
: The point of this is that the Deceiver has his own
: agenda, yes, but it doesn't include helping Alric
: escape. They do not become buddies--the D calls Balor
: in to interrogate Alric in person and that's that. If
: anything, I'm willing to accept that during his
: captivity Alric developed a grudging respect for the
: Deceiver and their later alliance was based on this
: mutual admiration, but not friendship and not a secret
: agreement made sixty years before Soulblighter's
: return (which neither of them, as far as I can tell,
: could have foreseen).
Who says they could have forseen this? The Deceiver could have gave Alric some info and that's that. Do you think the Deceiver forsaw the Watcher attacking his forces head-on? Of course not. The D probably figured Alric would march right at Balor and leave the other Fallen Lords to fall once their "master" had fallen on the sword.
The D would take this opportunity to increase his search efforts for the Watcher's arm and perhaps use it on him when the Legion abbandoned the West. But, the Legion grabbed the arm and in the frantic chase that ensued, the Deceiver let his rear guard down and was massively attacked by the Watcher.
: Oh, one other thing--and this is a question. The link
: between Balor and the Fallen Lords--does it have to be
: magical? It's supposedly the source of their power.
: Maybe, just maybe, what's really being referred to is
: that Balor is supplying them materially--with troops,
: equipment, money, etc. This would explain why
: Soulblighter can still stand upright after Balor's
: death but also why he shows up on his own with only a
: random scattering of dark forces (who don't have to be
: under his control) at the Devoid.
They imply that they were "bent to his will" which could mean that the Fallen Lord's intentions were now to serve Balor's desires.
: Another possibility: the link is real, magical, a source
: of mana--but Balor isn't dead until the head is
: actually in the Devoid. Otherwise why bother throwing
: it in? Why not just burn it (I know, you don't just
: kill a Leveller, but is he dead or not? There's a
: suggestion that the head can still talk--though that
: might just be a joke referring to the bad advice heads
: tend to give)? The answer may just be that until the
: head is removed from play the link is still in force.
There is no "link" that keeps the Fallen Lords in power. They contain their own. Balor's head is still alive and perhaps can talk.
Remember "bent to his will" can mean various things. I personally take it as the Fallen Lords were still their own beings, with their own powers and goals, but their intentions were now bent towards destruction and the evil that the Leveller extends.
Chris
