Let me begin by saying THANK YOU Forrest for introducing some sense into this discussion. You’re right, the plot isn’t linear. Chris, what makes you think it is? Just because it is a retelling? As Forrest says, Myth is an example of non-linear storytelliing because, unfortunately, the retelling can change depending on the outcome...that’s what the different post-game art symbolizes.
: I've read it, it says nothing of Alric killing or
: ordering the killing of the Deceiver. Here is the
: exerpt you are referring to: "Twelve Motion
: Jeweled Skull says he was last here sixty years ago,
: fighting alongside the likes of Durak and Turgeis with
: Burning Steel. They caught The Deceiver and the
: remnants of his army in this very defile and here
: destroyed them. "
: Hmm...sounds to me like the Watcher destroyed the
: Deceiver's army and a Legion force stumbled across the
: Deceiver and his terribly weakened force. They would
: not know of a allied relationship between the D and
: Alric so they would naturally attack the Deceiver and
: his army.
I never said Alric ordered it, I just said that the Light vanquished the Deceiver, not the Watcher, which you were denying. So, now you're saying there was a miscommunication. That's possible, but seems unlikely if Alric valued the D as much of any ally, which he certainly should have, considering his power. Also, you're still not answering my point that Alric, if chums with the D, would have rescued him after the Great War.
: As for your other comment, I'll say it again, Get GURPS.
: "If Tierces triumphant returned as Moagim, victor of
: and in death, and if Balor the last Leveller was
: Connacht, greatest hero of all, how does the Dark's
: stunning set-back in the Great War fit in the even
: great cycle?
: The scholars whisper, search the faded lines in their
: musty volumes, and cast anxious eyes towards their
: archmage emperor..."
: He's obviously not trusted by all and is an interesting
: character.A common theory around here is that Alric is
: the true Leveller (perhaps a rebirth of Moagim), but
: perhaps you missed that debate, eh?
I originally made the comment as a bad joke. In any case, I think it's highly probable that Alric is destined to be the new Leveler, having vanquished the old (Balor), but there's no evidence that he is yet. It should take a few centuries.
: Alric didn't, his troops did. I don't think Alric kept
: tabs on all of the Legion's troops, especially after
: the volcano erupted.
: Theory one is not dead, stop being so damned pompous, you
: show a lack of class when debating. Remember, the
: Deceiver may have had more control of himself then
: others think. Plus! Like I've said countless times,
: the Deceiver was attacked by the Watcher, something he
: did not take in account when planning future events.
: The Watcher caught him off guard and some band of
: Legionaires destroyed his remaining forces. If Alric
: was allied with him, he had no idea what was going on,
: but I've said that Alric was most likely not allied
: with him.
Right, I already talked about miscommunication and all that, and you need to respond to my point about why Alric didn't rescue the D. You say something about "the Deceiver may have had more control of himself than others think." I don't know what this means, but I assume you mean that the Deceiver let himself stay in the ice and could have left any time. There was a long message string debating this point, andthe conclusion was that the Deceiver really was trapped. Besides, if the Deceiver and Alric were chums, why would the D remain in the cold when he could just get up and walk home to Muirthemne?
In any cae, you don't seem to think they were chums, so we'll let it rest here.
: We can't explain it, what Bungie has given us does not
: allow a lot of background information. Personally, I
: think the Deceiver wants to ascend to the throne of
: Cath Bruig, so perhaps enlightening Alric would not be
: the best option. Plus, the Deceiver knows better than
: to trust ANYONE with his plans.
OK, now I hear the motive. Problems 1.The best way for the Deceiver to take over the Empire is to get close to it, like give the illusion of working with it. So, why sneak behind Alric's back through interrogation when he could, say, just tell him "kill Balor and I will be able to join you." Then, after the Great War, the Deceiver would be allowed into the Empire, bringing him closer to ruling it. 2. Once allied with Alric in Myth II, why not find a way to knock him off, leaving him as the most powerful member of the Light, and the probable inheritor of the crown? 3. We both seem to accept that he faked his own death. Is that the action of someone who wants to take over the Light or the Dark? If he wanted the Light, he should've fought with them till the end of Soulblighter, at which point he'd be a trusted ally. By faking his death, he'd have to come back at some point and explain to the Light why he tricked them. More probable is that he faked his death knowing that Soulblighter was doomed to die, and that, when he came back, he could take over the Dark. With the Light thinking he was dead, it would assume it had no more enemies left, giving him the perfect opportunity to gather the forces of the Dark (of which the D is the only possible commander post-Myth II) in secret for an attack against the Light. This undercuts your idea that the D wants to return the Cath Bruig to its former glory.
: To get him going after Balor! I've said this many times.
: By giving him false info, he changes Alric's focus in
: the war. now, the Legion will set off determined to go
: straight for Balor.
Remind me why, exactly, he needs Balor dead.
: Balor didn't anticipate Alric sneaking behind Balor's
: main force to confront him from his flank.
EXACTLY!!! You've just given an example of Balor slipping up most stupidly. This is EXACTLY what happened in the Five Champions--he didn't ANTICIPATE the Light sending over five guys in a balloon. He expected a frontal attack. Why do you believe this could happen in The Last Battle but not the Five Champions?
: Hmm, the Light would have to wait until April to cross
: the Cloudspine, the snow wouldn't melt for five
: months. Balor also didn't know of Tharsis erupting.
: No, they would lose too many and would be annihilated
: from all the chokepoints.
You're speculating based on military intelligence you don't have. Besides, no one said that Balor's mind works like yours, or that he is as logical as you.
I'm glad you posted your entire plot summary. One thing though: you assume that the Deceiver was defeated before Balor. Why? The narrator is good at documenting events near and far, from Shiver's defeat to the civil war in the west, to the death of each member of the Nine. That he hadn't written about the D's defeat by the time of the Great Devoid shows the D was still out and about when the head went in the hole. This backs up my theory that the D's defeat at the hands of the Light was ultimately caused by the loss of Balor, which weakened him. If that is so, then what Alric learned WAS true, and his captor was indeed Balor.
Second, you still haven’t posted what evidence you have. Please do that. You also didn’t refute anything I said about why what evidence you’ve presented isn’t very good.
One last thing--and this is important. SiliconDream brought up something interesting below. Whatever Alric said he learned in his interrogation, maybe what he was implying was that the armies of the undead themselves would collapse. And, lo and behold, that’s what happened--or else how could the tiny Legion destroy those half a million undead, even after Balor was dead? The answer is that, as soon as the head went down the Great Devoid, all the undead fell apart, leading to immediate victory for the light. Thus, what Alric learned WAS true, there is nothing fishy going on here, Balor was the interrogator.
