: Hm, it is never explained how or why he is exhausted. I
: take it he is exhausted from being held up in a force
: field for quite awhile. And, he could have faked it,
: sure. The Deceiver did not fight the Light after
: Balor's death...what are you talking about? The
: Watcher beat him severely and brought the Deceiver to
: a near-death state (see GURPS).
First, I'm pretty sure (can't find my Myth I CD) that the pre-level text says he was exhausted specifically from interrogation. And you give absolutely no reason Alric would fake exhaustion in front of the Five Champions (he has a hidden agenda too?? Maybe he's really the leader of the Fallen Lords!...not) And, yes, read your history, it WAS the Light that vanquished the Deceiver and stuffed him in the ice. Read the entry to "The Stair of Grief."
: Also, I said I'm leaning towards the theory that the
: Deceiver gave Alric bad information. But, if you're
: wondering why it took Alric 60 years to unfreeze the
: Deceiver. Well, he had no purpose to.
If Alric and the Deceiver had planned things together, Alric would consider him an ally, and 1. Would not stuff him in the ice, or 2. You'd think he'd rescue an ally just in case a new evil should arise? What was Alric doing, keeping him in storage? Wouldn't the Deceiver be a little peeved his "ally" had taken so long to free him from the ice? Theory #1 is dead.
: Why not? The Deceiver is a DECEIVER. He does not let
: anyone know his plans but "helps" those who
: could further his personal progress. How does what you
: wrote above prove my idea is not true? It does nothing
: of the sort.
All right, fine, you'll just have to explain to me why--if the Deceiver intended to help the Light--he didn't bother to enlighten Alric. Just noting his name (which was given to him by Balor, anyway) doesn't explain away every weird thing he does.
: No, he never had this motive and it is never evident
: through any of the Myth text.
Fine, you'll have to tell ME what you think the Deceiver's motive is for feeding Alric false information as per your Theory #2.
: Heh, you seem to think you can refute my theories by
: simply restating basic Myth story. The Deceiver does
: NOT want to command the Dark, that is obvious. I think
: he wants a return to the former glory of Cath Bruig
: and to finish off any enemies. He wants nothing to do
: with the Dark's desire to take over the world.
What? He wants a return to help the Cath Bruig? So you're saying he DOES want to secretly help the Light...so I ask again, couldn't he tell Alric his plan instead of going behind his back, interrogating him to the point of exhaustion, feeding him false information, and almost getting him killed in the escape?
: You seem to think that every character either wants to
: save the world or destroy it, and that is not the
: case. Balor did (which is questionable), Soulblighter
: did, but the Deceiver, the Watcher and Shiver all had
: different agendas and never showed signs of wanting to
: destroy the world.
OK, like I said, tell me, explicitly, what the Deceiver's motive is, because I'm not clear on your theory.
: What? The purpose of the game is to win, and by wining
: you tell the story. Christ, its not difficult. There
: is no alternate Universe so if you want to see the
: story you must win. It's how you interpret the story
: that matters.
Look, we've hit a dead end in logic, so I'm just going to ask you this--isn't it POSSIBLE that Alric's captor, whoever he is (and we both know I think it's Balor) really didn't want him to escape alive, but simply failed through the heroic and creative efforts of the Light?
: No, because the Legion brought out the Myrkridian
: standard. He came out because he was formally Connacht
: and the sight of the thing so enraged him that he had
: to destroy it and its carriers himself.
Exactly my point. The Light uses a ploy to exploit Balor's weakness. Balor COULD have easily destroyed the Light if he'd just stayed indoors, but the Light knew just what to do to beat the odds--just like they did in "The Five Champions." Heh, here's another piece of evidence that Balor ain't perfect: the Light sends a couple thousand troops against half a million at Rhi'Anon. Balor should have suspected something was up...it's not like Alric to suicide. Heck, he should've kept, say, ten thousand troops just to hang around HIM. But Balor didn't because...surprise surprise, he messed up.
: I never said that, but when you add everything together,
: it seems odd. Alric is caught by the Deceiver, Alric
: is left by himself guarded by essentially 10 soulless,
: once you hack through 3 groups of thrall and some
: ghols, Alric is easily rescued by breaking a force
: field, and he reveals some plans that are false,
: somehow learns of the Watcher's (The Deceiver's sworn
: enemy) weakness to his bone and learns of the location
: of the Eblis stone. Who else would know these things
: but someone who was alive for a thousand years and was
: around when Connacht sought to destroy the ancient
: artifacts and probably studied his enemy's weakness
: for the life of the rival.
OK, you're finally introducing some new evidence. 1. The Watcher's weakness: I think any sorcerer would know that a piece of a wizard's body can be used against him. There's no reason this sort of weakness is unique to the Watcher. It's never even implied. 2. The location of the Eblis Stone: Absolutely NO reason to believe the Deceiver had to divulge this info to Alric (no good reason that he would know it, either)...Alric could have been hunting down this artifact for a while, or might have already had it in his possession and stored away somewhere. Also, BIG PROBLEM: The D would only give Alric these two pieces of info under your Theory #1, that Alric and the D were working together. I think I pretty soundly disproved that theory above. If you're really leaning on Theory #2, how the heck could the D slip Alric this free info without Alric thinking something was way fishy?
Oh yeah, and certainly some of the Heron Guards are at least one thousand years old.
: In this case, the story doesn't fit that Balor would have
: Alric and not do anything with him. Balor would never
: let five men capture Alric, he had too many troops not
: to use them. As for the Last Battle, all of Balor's
: troops were being diverted so he has an excuse. In
: this case, there is no excuse. Balor knew the Legion
: wouldn't cross the Cloudspine so he basically had one
: of their most improtant men with the entire Legion
: stuck hundreds of miles away for a few months. Come
: on, Balor knows better. He wouldn't let this
: opportunity pas him by.
About my theory that Balor might have been waiting on the Cloudspine: he simply might have thought that the Light had no other way to get to the Barrier, or might have been expecting the Light as soon as the snow melted (which could happen not too far in the future. Or he might have thought the Light would chance it anyway, since Alric was so important to them.
: What is the point of this site and all of the theories
: thrown around and the new GURPS book if Bungie wanted
: us to take the story in Myth and Myth 2 as it was? I
: suggest you get GURPS and read through it. It'll give
: you another perspective rather than the one you have
: now.
Look, I'm all into secret plots--I believe the Deceiver is still alive, don't I?--but I don't buy every crackpot theory.
Now, obviously there's some confusion going on. So, do me a favor. Spell out your theory again, in whole: exactly what Balor knew of the capture, exactly what the nature of the relationship between Alric and the Deceiver was, what the Deceiver told Alric, how he did it, and what the Deceiver's ultimate goals were.
Then, lay down all your evidence for your theory. So far, I count three pieces:
1.The unlikely rescue of Alric
2.Alric knows that the Watcher's bone can be used against him
3.Alric has the Eblis Stone
Since there is no proof that the latter two have anything to do with the Deceiver, and the first piece of evidence might just be an example of the good people at Bungie trying to make an exciting and interesting game, I remain unconvinced. Especially considering you haven't laid out a motive for the Deceiver that is either understandable or makes sense. Once again, let's use Occham's Razor until we have something that makes your theory PROBABLE as opposed to POSSIBLE (or downright UNLIKELY, as the case is).
