Zap!
(end of war)
: Or Balor would get smacked by a handy meteorite. Or
: he'd step on a rake. Or something. The Leveler's
: defeat is as inevitable as his rise, when the time has
: come for the age of Light. How else could a beaten,
: cowed people, ravaged by the Myrkridia, produce a hero
: like Connacht? He'd get noticed and have his head
: ripped off before he got anywhere near powerful enough
: to challenge the Dark. The only explanation is that
: Fate was on his side; when it's time for the Leveler
: to be destroyed, probabilities shift and "chance
: tears and bends" (or, slightly less
: metaphysically, the beings in charge of the cycle pump
: far more power into the champions of the Light than
: they could ever achieve on their own) to make his
: destruction a certainty. This is not to say that
: there's no point in the Great War; even if the triumph
: of the Light is inevitable, you want to make sure the
: Light hasn't been reduced to a single peasant by the
: time they win. But in my view the battles of TFL
: determine only the quality of the Light's victory, not
: whether that victory actually occurs.
Yes. I agree
: Of course, the
: average warrior, like the narrator, is probably a
: little less trusting of fate than the Heron Guards
: are, so they're still going to fight as if the triumph
: of the Light really did depend on them.
The cycle will always happen in the same way, however, In my thoery, the head is the one who makes it do that, he is in charge of making sure what is soposed to happen happens. He may be so old and smart that he "could predict and tell what all the atoms in that gas cloud would do for the next thousand years" The system may be a tad shakey(I.E. the head could fail) but if he hasn't yet, theres not much chance he will soon.
: Actually, I think it would be *neutral* specifically from
: the Nine's point of view. Yes, the Cath Bruig empire
: was destroyed by the cycle. But so (probably) was the
: Trow empire.
The trow were killed(or sunken) in the wind age when connact was out evil bashing(killing myrks and things), it says he sunk thier great cities into the ice, but like the myrkridia, if they dont have to breathe, they could soposedly be "thawed", and therefore "resurected".
But yes, the trow were killed (as a force of evil) during the light side of the cycle.
: So was the period of domination of the
: Myrkridia. For every Light power that was tragically
: destroyed before it could bring peace to the whole
: world, a Dark power was mercifully destroyed before it
: could annihilate the planet. As far as we know the
: Dark races would still have been there if the cycle
: hadn't existed; the Dream of Unlife would still be
: waiting for someone to discover it. Without the
: cycles, the Light and the Dark would just slug it out
: non-stop until one or the other had triumphed for
: good, and I for one don't think the Light's victory
: would be a sure thing. In fact, in the long run, it
: might be inevitable that the Dark would win. The
: Light, after all, has to save the world every time;
: the Dark only has to destroy it once. Sooner or later,
: a Dark being or empire would live long enough to
: discover the Myth equivalent of the H-bomb, and once
: the planet was populated only by the "unthinking
: dead" the Dark's victory would be complete and
: eternal. So it's probably more important to keep the
: Dark powers from becoming strong enough to kill
: everybody than to let the Light powers become strong
: enough to give everybody flowers and candy. I think
: the Nine would actually be grateful that the cycle
: allows the Light dominance at least half the time.
: I agree, they wouldn't trust him when the Dark comes
: again. But he wouldn't want them to. He doesn't want
: the Light to ask him for advice when the Leveler comes
: again; he wants them to get clobbered.
umm... wasnt this age the dark dominence time? (notice the big war in thich the light almost get annihilated, when compared to the last age, in which connact when around killing evil and the light side built big cities and things like the tain)
: Only when it's
: time for another age of Light would he want to give
: them a hand, and they'd trust him then since they'd
: know that, for that half of the cycle, he's on their
: side. I'm sure the Avatara would find it extremely
: annoying that he only helps them half the time, but
: what are they gonna do? They have to take whatever
: help they can get. Besides, even if they never trust
: him again, I'm sure in a thousand years or two he can
: find a suitable disguise, or a friend to go instead.
: There are a lot of possible ways to get the necessary
: information to them when he has two millennia to plan.
: I'm almost sure the mirror only worked on Shiver because
: of the special nature of her death--"her spirit
: disconnected from her body, set adrift on the
: ether." In fact, given that her weakness is
: vanity, I'd be willing to bet that Rabican used the
: mirror to defeat her in the first place.
Page 11 of your myth manual states very clearly that:
"Supposedly the immense power of items like the Tain both fascinated and terrified him, and he is known to have saught out objects of similar power - the five eblis stones, Tramist's Mirror, the total codex. Rabican most likely did not have the mirror, Connacht/Balor did.(next page, he secreted them or destroyed them, but we know he didnt destroy it)
: If just
: anyone could be retrieved this way, Soulblighter would
: have resurrected every Fallen Lord in the last million
: years, not just Shiver, and he would have been
: unstoppable.
Yeah, trammist's mirror pulls stuff and people out of the Ether.
: Look. In the middle of a desperate and losing war with
: the undead, upon which the fate of the continent
: depends, several thousand warriors decide to forget
: about the war, mutiny, and kill their own leaders to
: protect a disembodied head who's been advising them
: poorly. That's not liberalism gone overboard--that's
: mind control. Or at the very least, the Head's been
: working (magically or not) to recruit supporters.
: Severed heads don't have much natural charisma.
Heh, personally, I wouldnt fight for a decapitated head myself, I would need to have my mind controled.
: I'm sort of running down on arguing about these specific
: points; I don't think either of us is ever going to
: convince the other. So let me move on to the general
: point of the cycle.
: I have
: to agree with Cryo on this.
WHOOHOO! (this almost makes up for that sword mistake...)
: Before TFL, you have nine
: Avatara, seven Fallen Lords, and a passel of Shades.
: After TFL, you have Alric, Soulblighter, a few shades
: and half-dead Myrdred and Shiver. The cycle definitely
: hits the most powerful beings the hardest. It's hard
: to argue for an evolutionary explanation when the
: people most fit to survive are the peasants, who run
: away while the stronger fight and die to beat back the
: Dark. However, I'd go even farther than Cryo does.
: It's not only there to get rid of Avatara; it's there
: to get rid of civilization in general. The Dark always
: targets the most civilized regions first, like the
: Cath Bruig empire; exceptionally brutal and primitive
: races, like the Mauls and Ghols and bre' Unor, are
: welcomed as allies of the Dark even though the Fallen
: Lords are supposedly hostile to all life. I expect if
: the Dark ever won, the Fallen would kill off their
: living allies as soon as convenient, but in the
: meantime they clearly manage to get along better with
: primitive creatures. I think the cycle was designed to
: let the Dark destroy the most scientifically,
: magically, technologically and artistically advanced
: cultures, then have the Dark be defeated before they
: can wipe everyone out. That way, the human race
: doesn't quite go extinct, but it always stays
: technologically backward. I mean, the cycle's been
: going for six thousand years. If it had some sort of
: beneficial evolutionary effect on humanity, everyone
: ought to have a mind like Alric's and muscles like
: Turgeis of Burning Steel by now, and be building
: teleporters and particle cannons with one hand while
: they compose 200-part symphonies with the other.
: Instead, in the time it took Earth humans to progress
: from the Stone Age to the Space Age, Myth humans have
: remained at pretty much the same medieval
: technological level. And their magical powers haven't
: improved either. Alric's most powerful weapons are the
: Eblis Stone, Ibis Crown and Balmung, all over a
: thousand years old. Here on Earth, weapons that were
: "cutting-edge" a thousand years ago are
: laughable now (although a good big rock always comes
: in handy).
I agree. sorta. This cycle has 2 purposes
1) Stop people from becoming gods. The cycles kills off the most powerful.
2)Stop people from becoming to smart i.e. Technology wise, In any modern day and age, Religion goes down, and people care less about "Gods", and rely on technology to take their place. From a gods perspective, this is a bad thing. technologies give people more power, and all powerful beings dont like that.
: I have rather an elaborate theory for why the cycle was
: created to keep humanity primitive; it involves a
: Marathon connection like Forrest's and I actually
: posted it a while ago in reply to his "general
: theory" post. Why don't you guys take a look and
: tell me what you think? It gets exhausting just
: criticizing other people's unfalsifiable theories for
: months on end; I'd like to have the easy job for
: once:)
Doesnt everyone want the easy job? :)
: I should note that in that theory the Head acts
: like Thoth, trying to abort the cycle. That explains
: the civil war and the Head's good-but-could-be-better
: advice quite well; the Head basically wants every
: powerful being on both sides dead so that the Light
: and Dark will fight to a draw and no one of real power
: will be alive to become the Leveller next time. The
: Head probably planned for Alric to escort Balor's head
: to the Great Devoid; when Soulblighter tried to steal
: it, Alric would have held him off while the dwarf
: tossed the head in, and then Alric and Soulblighter
: would both have been killed in the blast and the
: cycle, perhaps, would have been broken. Some people
: have noted that you actually see Alric's body fly by
: in the ending animation, so maybe Bungie intended for
: the game to end this way, with the breaking of the
: cycle, until they starting thinking about a sequel.
: So, anyway, go look at my theory, please. A couple of
: things about Fear: Have you done this yet? I'm curious
: too. My guess is, at the beginning or midway through
: flight, the arrow "unfolds" into a whole
: shower of arrows aimed in slightly different
: directions. In Fear terms, it detonates immediately
: into a projectile group containing many ordinary
: arrows, the same way a Myrk Giant throws a projectile
: that immediately becomes a bunch of explosive skulls.
: Now that I think about it, that would look really
: cool. I think I'll post a mini-plugin for Myth II on
: the Mill in the next few days, enabling archers to use
: the "magic" arrows.
Yeah... That sounds right.
: Actually, that's not quite what I meant. Trow kicks and
: punches are completely different attacks (and each
: attack has its own set of animations) in Fear. This is
: why fistfights between Trow take so long to conclude;
: their punches are a lot weaker than their kicks. They
: punch each other and kick smaller units because of a
: couple of flags you can check for each attack,
: "vs. giant-sized" and "prohibited vs.
: giant-sized." What I was referring to was their
: punches alone. You've probably noticed that sometimes
: they throw a straight punch and sometimes they use a
: back-fisted punch. It's exactly the same attack; it
: just looks different. In the same way, Myrkridia
: attack sometimes with their right hands and sometimes
: with their left, but it's the same attack either way.
: In both these cases, the choice of animation is
: random, but you can also make the monster select
: between animations depending on the height of the
: target, like bowmen. Personally, I think berserks look
: a lot more berserk when they use all three attack
: animations unpredictably.
: Sounds like fun. I can't do squat with TFL, so it would
: have to be a Myth II scenario (which you'd probably
: want to do anyway because of all the Myth II perks,
: like fire.) However, I'm afraid I've got no experience
: with map-making, and a lot of the third-party editors
: like Amber don't work too well on my machine. I could
: probably do most of the necessary Fear work, though
: (which is the easy part of the job, I know). Maybe we
: should ask around for someone who's interested and
: good with Loathing and the third-party editors. Even
: if we can't do a whole scenario, I'm sure a plugin and
: a couple of maps would give players a lot of pleasure.
: Email me if you're serious about this. CryoBlue, you
: interested?
Sure, But I also cant do much other than fear and some graphics, which I still lack the proper tools to make(I have an old but reliable paint program), But I got good at 3-D from messing around with Anvil back in the days of Marathon, and I havent worked with them scence.
-CryoBlue
