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Re: Talking some more...and more...

Posted By: Seraph (adsl-66-123-170-245.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)
Date: 6/14/2003 at 2:01 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Talking some more...and more... *PIC* (Archer »–)›)

: No, because it's not true. Saddam Hussein, embodying him
: by his horrendous atrocities, was not anything the US
: did. We had no idea about the mass murders and the gas
: raids that were dropped on the Kurds or used against
: the Iranians until it was far too late. Nor did we
: give him those weapons of mass destruction (the French
: and Russians did most of it, as they, along with Iraq,
: did not sign on to the WHO's nonproliferation act on
: biological and chemical weapons).

I think what Olorin meant was, we created him, in the sense...We backed and supported him in getting into power. We made him a leader, in order to fight our enemies...

: Saddam Hussein's slightly less Communistic Socialism was
: a bit more palatable, as much as they were very close
: allies with Moscow, but Saddam Hussein was in
: opposition to the crazy Iranians, a much bigger threat
: at the time. So, we supported him in his war against
: them.

A threat? The fanatics in Iran were such a threat that the "Civilized world" trembled at the mention of their names...The Fallen Lords of the 1970s Earth, no less.
*etches iron with the acid in his sarcasim there.*

: But we didn't give him weapons. Again, that was the
: Russians, the Soviets; heck, the serial numbers on all
: the Iraqi rifles are in Russian characters. They flew
: MIGs, and used Russian tanks.

: Indeed. Communism was the ultimate threat to the world.
: Having a few petty dictators seemed worth it if it
: kept a country from becoming Communist. It worked.
: But, with the spread of Communism no longer being the
: threat, a new enemy, terrorism itself, has shown
: itself to be the present danger to the civilized
: world. I think the transition makes perfect sense.

So, according to your logic, its more than justifiable to support nonCommunist dictators to oppose Communists, presumably anti-Democracy by their very nature, in our claims of supporting democracy?

Explain...I seriously think you're wrong there.

Also, as a personal note, what does "Civilized world" mean in the twenty-first century?

The United States and Europe?

I've never liked the phrase, but its practically meaningless in this century.

This may be a bit of a jumble. In short, however, I think you're arguing for fighting fire with fire if we "have to", and making mistakes about what was threatening (to the extent of being worth fighting...I'm very skeptical that Communism was such a threat that we needed to oppose it on principle.)

Seraph

P.S. In case it isn't painfully obvious, I don't believe in "nessacery evil"s...such is a total contradiction in terms to my mind. Its like saying an apathetic liberal...by the very nature of the noun, the adjective can not be honestly used to describe it.

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