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Re: Bush and his politics

Posted By: Phil (static-64-65-138-250.mspcovdsl.eschelon.com)
Date: 6/12/2003 at 5:22 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Bush and his politics (Superfoborg)

: BTW, your italicized quotes thing is really annoying.
: When I respond to your message it quotes your quote of
: me too, since it's not indented with colons

I realize this, and its effect was intentional. It's a method I prefer. Seeing what I wrote in my last post allows me to put the words of whomever I'm responding to in better context. But I understand if it's not for every one. I will refrain; after all, you're the sheriff 'round these parts.

: Hmm... I think I either switched the two terms in the
: subtraction step, or phrased the end wrong (the number
: you get after the multiplication is the amount you
: owe, not what you are owed back). Just switch the sign
: where appropriate so that if you make more than
: average, you owe, and if you make less, you're owed.

Okay, I think I see what you mean here. At the end of the calculation simply drop any negative sign off the result after dividing by the number of units to get a sort of “tax index.” Subtract that from half the Unit's net to get the final value. Positive values are owing balances. Negative values are refunds. I think it's the dropping of any negative sign on the index step that was missing before. This works much better.

So here's a sample calculation:
A tier has 10 units (persons). 5 are lower class and earn 15,000, which doesn't cover their 19,000 OE; they have a net of -4,000 each. 3 persons are lower middle class and earn 35,000, which covers their 25,000 OE; they net 10,000 each. One person is upper middle class and earns 50,000, his OE is 30,000; he nets 20,000. The final unit is a wealthy citizen whose 250,000 income greatly outweighs his 50,000 OE; his net is a substantial 200,000. Half of their combined nets are 115,000. The net for the tier Government is -5,000. (115,000 - 5,000) / 10 = 11,000. This tax index number gives the lower class units a refund of 13,000 putting them ahead by 9,000 after taxes. The Lower middle class units receive a refund of 6,000 putting them ahead by 16,000. The upper middle class unit receives a refund of 1,000 giving them a total 21,000. And the wealthy unit owes 89,000 leaving him with 111,000. Does this sound about right?

: See, a governmental level unit has no actual operating
: expenses or income in the same sense that a person or
: organization does. Public services are all handled
: through charities, not the government itself.

Here's where I begin to have doubts about this system on an ideological level. This system depends on the altruistic nature and philanthropic deeds of, primarily, the wealthy to provide public services for very little profit. For example I'll use the same sample calculation I used above, but change one statistic. The wealthy citizen now gives 200,000 in gifts, in addition to his OE of 50,000, to provide public services such as police, civil defense, fire coverage, health services, waste management, urban upkeep, public transportation, telecommunications, utilities, infrastructure, and public works. In actuality, it need not be a wealthy citizen; it could now be a public works company that has 250,000 in OEs. Either way, it's new net is zero. Now the total for half of the accumulated nets is 15,000. Subtract 5,000 for the net of the government and there is 10,000 divided between 10 units leaving a 1,000 index. Now the lower class units receive a refund of 3,000 leaving each in the hole by 1,000 for the year. The lower middle class will now owe 4,000 leaving them with 6,000. The upper middle class will walk away with 11,000 after owing 9,000. And the wealthy unit or public service company which would have had an after tax profit of 111,000 in the first scenario now walks away with only 1,000 in refunds.

Not only can I not think of an individual or company that would sacrifice that amount of time and resources for the public good, but the personal fortunes of everyone else would be diminished if they did. My confidence in humanity is not so great that I believe people will willingly make this sacrifice or even encourage others to do so if it will impact them negatively. This is why paying taxes that support the government run services in this country is mandatory. The government's very job is a form of philanthropy and it uses the money that others would rather not give to fund services that need it. This is partly why the IRS has such a fearsome reputation. If paying taxes and supporting basic public services were voluntary, or punishments for non-payment light, no one would pay.

-Phil.

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