: *Chuckles.* 'kay.
: I'd say the aspect that makes him stand out so very much
: is that he actually has the courage to cut through the
: bs that has plagued present-day thinking for a long
: time, that he won't let idiotic notions prevent the
: country from leading the world in making itself a
: better place, that he and the country will stand up
: for freedom and virtue. He's extremely radical when it
: comes to international politics, I know; even a
: Socialist should be shocked, if not pleased, by the
: destruction of the status quo that he has begun.
Some detail would be nice here before I have my response. I'm skeptical at best of this. (Invading a foreign country to stand up for freedom and virtue, right...)
But then, this is all opinion right here.
: *Chuckles.* How very specific... I agree that thing in
: the Alaskan wildlife preserve was a debacle, but the
: plan wasn't a bad one; it wouldn't actually have put
: any drilling on the preserve at all. They would have
: drilled down and to the side, not interfering a bit
: with the wildlife. Eh, but it didn't matter much
: anyway; che sarΰ, sarΰ...
: Well, keep in mind that war was not our decision; it was
: brought to us, to our doorstep, after having been
: ignored for years in Kenya, with the USS Cole. Indeed,
: jihad , Holy War has been declared on us by al-Qaeda.
: The response of terror threatening the civilized
: world: the War on Terrorism, everywhere in the world.
: It makes sense.
: But yes, he, slowly, led us to war with Iraq, and then
: very quickly brought us out of it, far on top, better
: than we were before, the world, and especially the
: Mideast, a much safer place. It's hard to deny that.
Define "better" and "safer".
I will be very surprised if what we did in Iraq does not make the US a few more enemies, and I certainly think that we trampled on the UN's credibility (Whatever it has, I don't think it's got much to spare for various petty reasons some decades ago.)
: Look at the economic history of the country. When taxes
: are too high, the economy will definitely suffer. More
: than that, you should note how, when taxes have been
: cut and the deficit spending increased, the economy
: improves. The Bush Adminstration is using empircal
: evidence. It would be shooting yourself in the foot in
: Europe where the economy is a very different animal,
: but it works here.
When taxes are cut, and spending is kept the same or raised, services suffer. When services suffer, people suffer.
Also, aren't most of the tax cuts going to the people with money already burning holes in their pockets?
: Not really. He's actually giving the nation integrity,
: that it indeed will stand up firmly to its core
: beliefs in justice, freedom, and liberty. Though
: others won't like it, he has the courage to lead is in
: such a positive direction.
I firmly disagree.
We are going into war, with countries that we don't like (I'm going to eschew debating if those countries deserve US intervention or not...let some less hot-headed people discuss that), with the intent of overthrowing their goverments and replacing them with ones we like.
And at home, we're doing some questionable things to civil liberties.
: Zah? You call this warmongering? Heavens, you don't read
: history much, I suppose. Spanish-American War was more
: warmongering than this.
It may have been, but this is still warmongering.
: As for Osama bin Laden, I don't recall that the symbol of
: al-Qaeda was more important than al-Qaeda itself.
: Indeed, an enormous quantity of the intrastructure has
: been dismantled by the United States' and the
: Coalition's efforts. The steps have been bold, and
: commendable. But, as was said from the very beginning,
: the War on Terror would not end in a day.
Bold, yes. Commendable...I'll agree, when we've dismantled the organization entirely.
: Ooh, he must be the devil... *Chuckles.* Sorry,
: sarcasm...
: Well, Capitalism works. I like Europe's socialism well
: enough, but I like America's Socio-Captailist mix the
: best. It provides the most freedom, and places more
: responsibility on the individual. I like it
: ideoligically more than anything, that we are adults
: in the country instead of being treated like children
: who can't help themselves. Harder, but doing the hard
: thing is sometimes the right thing.
Well, if this is the result of placing responsibility on the masses, I'm going to turn Monarchist.
And Socio-Capitalist mix?
Where's the Socialism in any way shape or form?
: I think his bold proposals to improve the environment,
: and I hope dearly they go through, are even greater in
: scope than anything Clinton did. I don't recall
: Clinton pushing for hydrogen cars.
I don't recall Clinton smashing through currently existing enviromental protection laws either.
: Gore might have done very different. It's really hard
: to say, because campaigning is very different from
: leading, but I think he might have tried to comply
: more with the status quo it would be very
: conservative of him and try to stay as politically
: correct as possible. Such nonsense as that would not
: make things any better, I'm sure you can agree.
I don't think what Bush is doing is making things better, but I agree keeping the "Status quo" and staying "political correct" are unlikely to be good ideas either.
: Eh, have courage, friend.
It's not a question of having courage.
It's a question of knowing I'm a tactless butthead when emotionally worked up about something.
Even if I almost entirely disagree with you, Archer, its good to see someone intelligently disagreeing with me (Not to say the rest of you are idiots, just that I enjoy intelligent debates, and this is one of the few places I see them.)
I guess the problem we basically have is this:
Bush is doing some questionable things.
You think that's positive.
I think that's negative.
I might be overly simplifing, but it seems to be the bottom of our disagreement...you're optimistic that his actions won't lead to trouble in the long run, I'm cynically pessimistic that they will, and already are leading to trouble.
Seraph
P.S. Who, of all presidents, would you say did the most good and the most harm to this country and/or the world at large?
Bush, Jr. doesn't count. Yet. (Hasn't finished a full term in office)
My two nominations...
FDR as the "best"
Johnson (the first one, not LBJ) as the "worst", although I'd need to give both areas more thought.
