 |
Re: Let the Debate Begin!
Posted By: SiliconDream (mates.hip.berkeley.edu)
Date: 12/11/1999 at 7:49 a.m.
In Response To: Let the Debate Begin! (Pimpyō)
: Now the only problem I have is the Soulblighter/Faceless
: Man swap. I would hardly consider Soulblighter an
: ancient evil by any means. He was probably a respected
: member of the Heron Guard and learned the secrets of
: immortality from them. He also practiced the black
: arts so perhaps he used his hidden temple to hide
: certain artifacts that Connacht wanted destroyed. It
: just seems unusual that one of Connacht's most trusted
: lieutenants would be an ancient evil . Perhaps it
: means overall age, such that since Damas was a Heron
: Guard of older age, he himself would be considered
: ancient by Human standards. I think that we should
: start a thread on this subject since it needs lots of
: further studies.
As Killing Duck says (so I shouldn't bother repeating it but I love to hear myself type), Soulblighter never dressed like a Heron Guard or received a Heron Guard name, as far as we know. I think he came with Connacht from east of the Empire. Yes, it is strange that an evil person would manage to get in good with Connacht, but The Head managed to win the trust of the Nine. I doubt that "ancient evil" means "ancient and currently evil," simply because it's being contrasted with "turned from the Light." In order to have the opposite meaning to this, "ancient evil" must mean "ancient and always evil," contrasting with those who were once good. My thoughts on Soulblighter are that he was a relatively petty evil, not a Fallen Lord, during Moagim's reign, and that he was not even noticed by the champions of the Light such as Connacht. Toward the end of the war Damas realized that the Dark was not going to win and decided he'd better join the winning team. So he appeared out of nowhere, probably offering some choice bits of information about the Dark just as The Head did, and became Connacht's trusted advisor. He may have spent the Wind Age trying to corrupt Connacht, and felt that he had triumphed when Connacht became Balor (although, unbeknownst to him, the cycle was responsible for this); hence he took the name Soulblighter from this perceived accomplishment. Oh, one more thing; if Damas was evil before Connacht was, it would explain why Soulblighter is willing to use Myrkridia; whereas Connacht was a good guy when he first encountered them and so developed a lasting loathing for them, Soulblighter was already evil and so approved of the myrks from Day One. Feel free to start a new thread if you think there's enough evidence to discuss this further; personally, I'm not sure where to go from here, other than "that's my opinion and that's all there is to it."
: Of course I have supportive evidence, but the Moagim one
: was rather intriguing to me. The Black Company has a
: powerful female sorceress named Whisper (or
: something very similar as I have not read the series
: myself). This seems to relate the association between
: being quiet like a Whisper and not having a voice. As
: many of the Fallen Lords are based upon The Black
: Company characters, it would make sense that this
: relation exists, especially considering Shiver is the
: only female Fallen Lord. And to steal some of your
: evidence (muahahaha), The Myrkridia were originally
: around long before Connacht became Emporer of the Cath
: Bruig Empire, so if she has proficiency with them as
: you stated, then she would have certainly needed to be
: alive during this time. Since very few living people
: still remembered them. I do see how she acts very
: young, but as a woman I guess she relied on her beauty
: to get what she wanted, thus vanity was her true
: weakness. Let me know what you think of these thoughts
: especially.
Let's see...I might argue that Shiver must *not* be related to Whisper, because Bungie wouldn't want to copy the Black Company series *exactly.* But we know that Shiver has a "whisper dream," so I can't really use that. However, I tend to see her pre-Rabican whispery voice as another indicator of Myrmidonhood; her vocal cords are all dried up and shriveled. Again, I think it's a matter of opinion. Damn you for stealing my evidence! Now I have to walk a rhetorical tightrope and claim that although Shiver was given the Myrkridia because she used to command similar units, the fact that she's not very good with them (or you'd never have gotten through the Gate of Storms) indicates that she didn't actually command Myrkridia but some unit which is slightly different. Myrmidons. How's that for sophistry?
More seriously, Shiver's problem is not just vanity: it's stupidity. She attacks without thinking and fails to try to understand her enemies' (and friends') motivation. I don't think someone like that would even survive 500 years of Light rule, unless they got a lot smarter in the meantime, as she clearly did not.
Two other bits: if Shiver had commanded Myrkridia, it's highly unlikely that a) Connacht would have allowed her to survive, and b) Balor would have been willing to ally himself with her, given Connacht/Balor's surpassing hatred for that race. Also, as I interpreted pictures in the comic of the Rabican/Shiver battle, Shiver's vanity was preserved by a spell cast by Balor, which symbolically cloaked her eyes with darkness and made her unaware of how she had changed from her original human form. Rabican exploited her vanity by tearing the veil of darkness away and allowing her to see herself; paralyzed with shock and self-loathing, Shiver was unable to defend herself and Rabican kicked the snot out of her. Now if Shiver was actually a millennium old, and this veil was placed on her by Moagim or another villain of that time period, then she spent 500+ years under her own control without *ever* noticing what she actually looked like. I think it's much more reasonable (if you believe my explanation of the Rabican/Shiver duel) to suppose that she's a 300-year-old Myrmidon, and that her eyes were kept cloaked all that time (and she was kept from even thinking about what she might look like) by Balor's power.
One last question; during the fight, Shiver's attack causes Rabican's "souls to peel away from his body." What do you think is meant by "souls" here? I had three conjectures: Rabican's power comes from knowledge of his past lives (in which he was also a sorcerer and learned assorted spells) and Shiver is weakening him by blocking those memories; Rabican has absorbed the souls of enemies or been voluntarily given the souls of allies to increase his power; or a "soul" in this contact is an aspect of consciousness, in the same way that medieval philosophers spoke of the "animal, vegetable and rational souls" to mean the emotions, the sense perceptions, and the logical processes of the mind.
Create new threads as you see fit.
--SiliconDream
Messages In This Thread
For your own future enjoyment, please report any major forum abusers or cgi errors so we can remedy the problem. If you have any questions email us.
| The Asylum |
|
|
