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Re: Ireland, Scottland, and Freedom
Posted By: Olorin (host213-123-46-89.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
Date: 9/28/2002 at 5:52 p.m.
In Response To: Ireland, Scottland, and Freedom *PIC* (Archer »))
: I've recently become very interested in one half of my
: heritage, my (predominantly) Irish and Scottish side.
: Since I'm aware of at least a few natives of the
: British Isles that are here, I'd like to ask the
: opinions of all those familiar with the ancient to
: present history of Ireland, Scottland, and the other
: composite lands of the region.
Ok, this is outline-hsitory, no detailed things here:
Well, their is a tradition (read: football-harboured) animosity between Scotland, Ireland and England (in fact, even between Northern and Southern England). I suppose the oldest reasons would be that the South kept getting invaded and though it put up a fight would lose and then fall apart due to betrayal and apathy, leading to the North (boo! Scousers!) falling as well, as the invaders then got good footholds in the South and new recruits. So England absorbed the invaders and adopted their cultures (although after the Norman invasion, because the North resisted so fiercly, all the important posts (held by loyal emn, obviously) were moved to the South, and the North was more or less left to rot - something you could say it's only really beginning to recover from (in terms of catching up with the South, obviously, it's not a desert or anything)), and Scotland and Ireland didn't like this, remaining fiercly independant and thinking England to be a bunch of weaklings and foreign invaders.
Fast forward some (read zeph's post, like I said, this is all sketchy bare bones info), and the figure I think that had the most impact was Oliver Cromwell.
What a bastard.
Mr. Righteous Puritan pillaged and raped Ireland (not by himself, obviously), which wasn't in great shape after several centuries of fairly harsh English rule - annoying nobles were sent to Ireland to be forgotten, and so didn't really have anyone to keep them in check, and nor did their puppet-princes they instated. The Irish, therfore, were not happy, and after the rebellion of 1798 they were crushed and the Act of Union was formed with England and Scotland - yes, Wales and Ireland were in there too, but they didn't really have much choice.
As for Scotland, James Stewart, who was James VI of Soctland woke up one day to find that after Elizabeth I had died he was the heir to the throne, and now ruled both England and Scotland. However, since England was more prosperous, and, well, was warmer, he relocated to London, becoming James I of England.
: For instance, watching Braveheart again led me to ask
: the question...if the Scotts "won", then why
: is it the country was still made a part of Great
: Britain, if I may ask so indelicately? I'm totally
: ignorant of that history.
Don't trust Hollywood. Braveheart, historically, as with all Hollywood "historical" films, is bs. And I don't mean brilliantly supreme.
: I'm also familiar with how there is a new Scottish
: Parliament and act of self-determination coming
: about...? So, if you'd humor my uninformity, I'd love
: to hear all about the last Celtic lands and their
: people.
Scotland: Well, after James II died people in Scotland were rather disguntled that they didn't own England any more (though it was really the other way around), but that didn't stop them merging in 1798.
Ireland: Ok, Ireland consisted of four kingdoms before the English invaded: Ulster (modern day Northern Ieland/Ulster) and Leinster, Connaught and Munster. Ulster was not very much liked by the other kingdoms at all, and benefited much more from English rule, with Belfast becoming one of the most important cities in the Isles. So when in the early 20th-century a referendum was held in Ireland to decide whether to become independant or not, it's no surprise that ulster decided to stick with the English and the others would have none of England or Ulster.
Of course, the freedom fighters then stepped in to help that poop oppressed colony of Ulster, because holding a plebescite is after all the best way to oppress someone, and killing people is the best way to free them.
As for Ireland, Seraph, I'm on the side of the police (previously known as the RUC) - the side that for some inexplicable reason (ok, civilian casualties, so not so inexplicable) risk their lives to stop the Protestant and Catholic terrorist tearing each other apart.
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