: During the wolf age or the wind age?
Wolf age. The Watcher was one of Moagim's Fallen Lords who fought against Connacht.
:Balor and the
: watcher had to combine there forces to finally destroy
: Muirthemne during the wolf age. If you will recall a
: pre-game pic right before the Iblis crown on myth 2,
: it is of Balor, in the throne room of Muirthemne, and
: he is inraged because he had not captured the real
: crown. We know the Watcher was there because it was he
: that killed the last of the great avatara of the east,
: forgot the poor souls name.
It was Mazzarin. It never said he was an Avatara of the East. (there goes your theory about the Watcher having to be at Muirthemne..) I believe Mazzarin fell in fairly recent history actually - it couldnt have been before, say, the fifth year of the war in the West. Follow my logic:
1.) Alric saw Mazzarin collapse the Shrine of Nyx on Sinis. (Conversation between Sinis and Alric, "Out of the Barrier.")
3.) If Sinis and Mazzarin were against each other, one of them was a shade at that point and one of them was still an avatara.
3.) Sinis says "I'll wager you thought you'd seen the last of me." The way this is worded and the way Sinis says it gives the connotation that Alric HOPED he'd seen the last of Sinis - that he took it for granted that Sinis was dead, that he was glad Sinis wasnt around anymore, that he was relieved he wouldnt have to deal with that d00d again - you get the idea.
4.) therefore, it is most likely that Sinis was a Shade and mazzarin was the avatar.
5.) Mauriac was prince regent during Alric's adolescence during the First Battle for Seven gates in the fifth year of the war (journal entry, "Flight from Covenenant"). That means that at the time Sinis faced Alric in the barrier, Alric was no more than 29 years old, assuming he is still an adolescent at age 17 - a late bloomer.
6.) How old could we honestly expect Alric to be when he is off campaigning with Mazzarin? If he isnt old enough to be prince, he isnt old enough to be going off to battle with the Fallen Lords. Therefore, the battle at Nyx occured sometime after the fifth year of the war.
7.) And THAT means the Mazzarin fell after the battle for Nyx, after the fifth year of the war - his body had to have time to decompose to the point we see in "The Watcher," so I'd place his death between the fifth and twelfth years of the War in the West. This is decades after the fall of Muirthemne.
Whew!
-Ares
: Any-way, the Watcher would have needed to rebuild his
: army, and the freshest supply of bodes was at
: Muirthemne. Balor probably headed back to Rhi'anon,
: content that the last of the major obstacles in the
: east had been cleared and that his leutenents could
: handle the weak western nations.
As I pointed out above - mazzarin was not killed at Muirthemne, therefore we have no proof the Watcher we there.
: That leaves four fallen lords to account for.
: Soulblighter was probably south, the other two we
: never hear about could have been anywhere, possibly
: even dead. That leaves Shiver, who being one of the
: weakest fallen at that point would have had fresh
: troops(she had not taken part in the sack of the
: capital, and probably would have gotten her-self
: killed if she had) and would have been desperate to
: build a strong force, less one of the other fallen try
: to kill her and absorb her army. Since the fallen
: armies were made up mostly of un-dead troops, and the
: only source of would-be corpses was over the mountains
: into the west. She probably thought she could
: over-power any resistance and create an army that
: would keep the others at bay. Hence her disastrous
: attempt to cross the mountains.
Shiver? One of the weakest? She kicks ass! Which would you rather have,
a.) the ability to convert an enemy unit every five minutes and a close range attack that slowly drains life,
b.) No magic skillz whatsoever, just the ability to escape by turning into clothes and some melee fighting skillz, or
c.) An arsenal of spells including a kick ass ground ripple that will kill anything in one hit, and a fast-reload whisper dream that can take out whole armies in seconds (if its not all being absorbed by the Deciever that is), and a freeze dream that summons a blizzard which crystalizes the enemy instantly! (this is in Fear what was never implemented in the dream.) gee, this is a no-brainer. Her only weakness is that she is easily fooled - but dont question her magic skeelz.
: Yes but did not the massacre at Avon's Grove happen near
: the 17th year of the war?
Yeah, yeah, point conceded. Avons Grove didnt have to be massacred only once you now =)
: Before anyone rebukes me for leaving the Deceiver out of
: my equation let me say this. I don't know if the
: Deceiver even exsisted until after the fall of
: Muirthmni. Wasn't he the reincarnation of the avitara
: that the watcher killed there?
I believe it was the Deciever who caused the fall of Muirthemne. The Deciever is the one who bound the Trow to the Dark, I think. Perhaps he used them to destroy Muirthemne.
He is held in high regard by the Trow as a being of furor poeticus - I don't know latin but this sounds like "legendary fire" or "poetic fury" or something. If anyone could win the Trow over to the Dark, its him.
: As always info is appreciated
Think I gave enough? =)
-Ares
