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Re: Valar, Sauron and Bombadil.

Posted By: Forrest of B.org (term2-47.vta.west.net)
Date: 5/30/2002 at 12:06 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Valar, Sauron and Bombadil. (Olorin)

: Ok...firstly, Tom CAN'T be some old man, as he'd have to
: be over 1,000 years old to remember Arnor and Angmar.
: Also, Tolkien makes it clear that no amtter how good
: you are, the Ring will ALWAYS eventually get a grip on
: you, simply because as men we are incarnate beings and
: therefore subject to material temptations, whether we
: like it or not...this was a key part to Saruman's
: downfall, as stated by Tolkien. Only the Istari and
: Morgoth were truly incarnate Ainur. Tom, therefore,
: would logically be a Maia, as he isn't an Elf due to
: his physical appearance, he can't be a man of dwarf
: either to have remembered that ancient history, and
: the Ring has no hold on him BECAUSE HE DOES NOT DESIRE
: TO HAVE A HOLD ON IT. (Sorry about caps, but don't
: know how to do italics here.) Thereofre, he is not
: subject to earthly temptations - the only explation:
: he is an Ainur. He can't be a Vala, as if he was then
: he would cartainly be doing a more Gandalf-like role
: as opposed to relaxing. So he is a Maia.

How do you know he's not a Vala for that reason? In the rest of your post you go into lots of specifics of WHY the Valar aren't actively involved in the War of the Rings; why would Tom be any different? You don't see Manwe out here rallying the troops; that's Gandalf's job. So if Tom is a Vala, he would likely take the same attitude all the rest do: resigned sorrow at the ruin that is being brought to the world.

Also, I don't have a copy of Lost Tales here with me, but I'm pretty sure that the Istari were sent to Endor by Eru himself, not by the Valar. Remember in the Ainundale, as Melkor kept trying to change the choir to his song, Eru kept raising another theme to bring harmony back to the choir, working Melkor's own works into a greater part. This happened three times. There are three ages. I don't recall what involvement (if any) Eru had in the First Age (besides creating the world, that is), but in the Second Age, Eru very violently interfered and changed the nature of the world. And in the Third, he sent the Istari.

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