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Re: Tolkien and Silvermines/Moria

Posted By: Forrest of B.org (term1-21.vta.west.net)
Date: 5/28/2002 at 9:58 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Tolkien and Silvermines/Moria (Doom)

: Actually, wizards weren't anything of the sort. If you'll
: remember from the Silmarillion, I think (though it's
: been a long time, I forget if this is right) it
: explains what wizards are, exactly. Or something. I
: know that there's some sort of supplement to the
: Hobbit/LotR series that explains it, and that would
: certainly indicate the Silmarillion. Anyway, sumbody
: should check it out; I'll try to if I (a) get the
: chance and (b) remember to.

It was one of the Lost Tales books, I don't remember which. Look under "Istari". There are only five actual wizards (as opposed to reallly magically powerful elves or something) in the world of LotR, and they are the five Istari. Illuvatar sent five Maia to Endor (the middle part of middle-earth, where all this takes place) and made them clothed in human flesh, there to lead the inhabitants of the world against the forces of Sauron. Being Maia, they could basically kick most anybody's ass single-handed - Gandalf never REALLY had to worry about Orcs or trolls or anything - but Illuvatar forbid them to use force except to match force, and instead they were to guide the free people of Middle-earth to ally again against Sauron. Only three of them were ever of any real importance, as the other two were off in the east and south: so-and-so (I forget) the Brown, who was Gandalf and Saruman's animal-tamer friend, and he mostly didn't get involved at all in anything; Saruman, and Gandalf.

There have been other Maia clothed in human clothes walking about as members of Endorian society, of course, but neither of them are considered "wizards", as that is a literal translation from the Quenya "Istari" to Westron (English). One of these two is Melian the Maia, who interbred with the elven-king Fingon (I think it was Fingon) to give birth to Luthien Tinuviel, who in turn bred with the human Beren, to begin the line of half-elven that eventually leads to Aragorn and Arwen. (Yep; Arwen's uncle was Aragorn's great great great great etc grandfather. Take about robbing the cradle eh? And incest at that too).

The other, of course, is Sauron, who walked amongst elves appearing good and like them for a hell of a long time before his body was lost in the chasms during the changing of the world.

Some people think Tom Bombadil was a Maia too, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless he was even more powerful a Maia than Sauron. Personally I think he was an actual Vala living in Middle-earth, but I can't remember which one he seemed to correspond to. Something about a horses and being a kick-assed warrior in some war or another come to mind.

: Also in the Silmarillion, it explains about the Valar,
: which were essentially gods, only subject to
: Illuvatar, and the Maia, which I always thought of as
: demi-gods/mini-deities/really powerful angels, or
: something to that effect, who are essentially the next
: level down from the Valar. A balrog is one of the Maia
: whom Morgoth corrupted, and Sauron is the chief of
: these. I guess it's possible amongst these
: super-powerful spirits to sort of migrate between
: ranks (from Maia to Valar), or at least in terms of
: the amount of power they have, because it says that
: Sauron eventually became like a shadow of Morgoth (I
: forget which one that's in). Anyways...

All the Valar and Maiar are just different castes of Ainur. They're all the same race, some are just better than others. So of course, some Maiar are stronger than others, as some Valar are greater than others, and some Maiar could get pretty close to Valar levels of power. It's make sense if Sauron was the most powerful Maia, as Morgoth was originally the most powerful Vala.

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