: Right; Bungie gave them permission to make GURPS Myth,
: exactly as it is. It's no more than a Role Playing
: Game based on Myth.
: Wtf? No it's not. There is nothing anywhere saying that.
: It's a somewhat reasonable assumtion as Bungie's name
: is on it, but that facade is all there is.
: YES! There is nothing ANYwhere that says GURPS is what
: you claim, not even the book itself! It's a shame
: that's not legally possible anymore.
: What?? Ok, that's, again, a reasonable interpretation,
: but there is nothing at all which says that.
So how could it be permitted but *not* approved? Did Steve Jackson threaten to beat Bungie up if they didn't let him publish a crappy ripoff of their story, and plug it and sell it themselves? Do you really think they'd license the franchise out without having any control whatsoever over the finished product?
By the fact that you won't believe GURPS is valid unless Alex personally comes to you and says so, you've removed the issue from the area of verifiability and made it into a religion. There's really nothing more to discuss.
: Actually, I had many conversations with him on Myth after
: that. I think Forrest might have been there for one.
: Santa clearly told me how Scott is going by the design
: documents, and that he denounces GURPS as having too
: many errors, and that it wasn't written according to
: the design docs., unlike M3.
Ah, so this is information only *you've* heard. :-P I'll believe it when I see it, thanks.
: You can't possibly believe that the design documents hold
: all information. They were a sketch of sorts which was
: filled in to make a rather complete story, but it
: can't cover everything. Scott then writes a story
: directly based, rooted, founded, upon that info.
Exactly--which is why Myth III couldn't be more reliable than GURPS. Because just as with GURPS, they have to make up some information to fill in the blanks.
: We know nothing of how much Bungie put into it.
We've seen the credits, we've seen that Bungie sold it, we know how Bungie feels about their products. This is information we can use.
: No, Bungie doesn't exist anymore. Everything Myth-Bungie
: is now in the hands of MJ. They hold everything,
: including all rights. Saying that they don't have
: rights to the story when they clearly have everything
: possible is more ludicrous than saying that GURPS,
: unapproved by Bungie for its story, has such rights.
If you're interested in analyzing a world arbitarily assembled by business deals, that's fine. But I'm not.
: I can't understand what you mean by this.
Well, tell me, why are *you* interested in Myth story analysis? Maybe we can find common ground that way.
: Wow, Sili, there isn’t one piece of any of the info you
: claim it has. Bungie didn’t sell GURPS, except in
: retail. It didn’t license it with anything more than
: rights to use the titles and some info from it.
Well now, let's put some things together.
"Based on the/ Award-winning/ Computer Games/ Myth: The Fallen Lords/ and/ Myth II: Soulblighter"
"Myth: The Fallen Lords and Myth: Soulblighter are trademarks and Bungie is a registered trademark of Bungie Software Products Corporation, and are used under license."
My goodness, it looks like GURPS Myth is based on information and products by Bungie. And it looks like they had to be licensed by Bungie to be used.
"Illustrated by/Robt Mclees."
Based on the Setting by/Robt Mclees."
Hey, look at that. There's the name of the guy who wrote the Myth story. Now, I wonder why he allowed them to use his name? And why they used his pictures. Can't do that without a contract, I understand. Oh...wait...he must have approved the deal as well! Unless all his Myth stuff was classified as work-for-hire, in which case...Bungie must have done it! Good old Bungie.
Selling in retail is still selling. Licensing for titles and information is still licensing. Bungie didn't *have* to do either.
: It will be absurd to believe that conversations should or
: would stay centered on one set of data or the other.
: They are the same thing because it never did anything
: but change hands and have full legality go to Take
: Two.
It changed hands! That's the difference! If I buy the rights to the Bladerunner franchise and make "Bladerunner 2: Deckard Wasn't a Replicant, He Was A Shapeshifter from Mars," who would care? It's not the same world! It's a new world that I created using elements from the old.
: Where? You just proved it by disproving your belief that
: Bungie gave explicit permission to use information
: more than to make their little RPG. GURPS is more
: different a beast from Bungie than MJ is from Bungie
: because MJ has more legality.
Again, what does legality have to do with it? We're interested in continuity of information flow and contributing minds. If you think that arguments based on legality are relevant, then (as I asked earlier) please explain on what grounds you're interested in Myth story analysis. That's the only area left where our positions aren't clear.
: (please pardon the following jibings; they’re all in good
: fun, and I mean nothing by them; I couldn’t resist :-)
: Personal choice, eh? Well, Sili, I guess I’m just saving
: myself for the right resource. What are you? Some kind
: of Myth-Information whore? You know what, that sounds
: like a lisp pronunciation of mis information whore,
: some kind of faulty info -maniac. You h00r.
Hey, whatever makes you happy.
: Those are analogies, Sili. I thought you of all people
: would appreciate them.
Maybe if I was sure what they were analogies of. :-)
: Nope. Those are different Shades. Only what we are
: presented with is canon to the story in any form.
: Right, just as people in such a Mythworld would make
: bets, or how kids while reading comic books might bet
: that Superman could beat Batman in a fight. Unless
: Marvel creates such a scenario, it’s only speculation,
: whether or not the kids make a very acurate analysis
: or not.
Um...if we can't be pretty much sure that a Brigand would lose to a Krid, I think we might as well shut the Asylum down now.
: Her spirit doesn’t need to be "left behind" any
: more than anyone elses. It can be reattained because
: it’s strong, lights up like a becon, imo.
The Tales comic explains that her spirit was in fact left behind. But then, Tales was written by all thos artist bastards who totally sold out to GURPS and all, so we can't trust it. :-)
: Right; I’m excited to find out.
: Potentially, but it seems unnecessarily cumbersome.
Not at all, I think. They're equally straightforward. Alric knew Sinis, thought he'd died, and either did or did not witness his death. No reason to assume either.
: But he didn’t appear before Connacht imprisoned the
: Myrkridia, then the Trow, in that order. Balor
: appeared decades before he might have had to hit the
: mark chronologically (he was early) because it was a
: Light Age before he arrived. There wasn’t much of any
: Dark in sight. He had to start from scratch; raise
: armies…litterally, raze empires, summon Fetch, and do
: a bunch of other things to prepare. Moagim was in the
: heat of a Dark Age, and wouldn’t really need to
: procure much of anything, and not compared to the
: level that Balor did.
He *invaded the West* after Connacht imprisoned the Krids and the Trow. We know nothing of when he was actually born, or when the Light first heard of his existence. He need not have lived three hundred years before the Great War as Balor did, but he'd still need to put together his army--especially since his invasion was largely separate from the Myrkridian and Trow threats. He had undead to make, Ghôls to organize, and so forth.
: Myrdred was there.
Only evidence of that is in GURPS. :-) And even GURPS doesn't say whether Myrdred was a contemporary of Mazzarin, or was recruited later. And much as I love Myrdred, I don't think he'd be able to hold the Light together against the Watcher and the Krids and all the other threats of a Dark Age for centuries.
--SiliconDream
