: First off this argument is fast becoming one of those
: circular ones with adherents on both sides refusing to
: budge. Now I continue it… ;)
hehe yup, these kind of debates are the most interesting because both sides know they have a valid arguement. but hey this is what makes Myth different, people care about the storyline and not just play it and then forget it. whether or not you and i agree on some aspect of the myth game, we still are comrades in a *slowly* dying race of TFL vets.
im sure we can agree on That :)
: Not necesarilly. I personally think that Bahl'al is the
: father of the thrall.
ah i didnt know you considered Bahl'al their first creator i just thought you considered it a possibility. makes more sense to me now :)
: He made them and he uses them
: the most, ala Shiver and her wights. He tried to make
: an even more powerful form of undead by trying to
: search for the dream spoken only of in legends. He
: tries but fails, resulting in why we see only the
: weaker thrall in his armies. Since he's their creator,
: it's why it's in their text.
i understand what you mean more fully now. i still think it is their flavor because that is their origin :)
: I have no idea where you got his list from. In all
: seriousness, did Bungie release this? It would help us
: a lot. however if it's just conjecture, allow me to
: point out that there are a ton of legends mirrored in
: Myth. If the comparison makes sense, it should
: probably be true, not the other way around.
it is explained by forrest below
: The list of this Dreams powers seems to be ever
: expanding. Sorta like the swiss-army knife of magic,
: eh? ;)
hehe i think i know how you feel: why should all the other dreams be relatively unchangable but this one do so much? i think the dream itself is the same, depending on your skill and you personal abilities, it changes on how it affects the corpse it is casted upon. so the dream is as static as the others, but its users vary greatly. see what im trying to get at? i'm not good with words but i hope you can translate that mess :P
: But! Thrall, soulless and wights were all around in the
: Wolf Age. I see no reason why the Dark Lords, without
: Balor's influence would give these secrets to
: eachother. They seem to hate eachother enough as it
: is, but if, as you imply, all of their magic derives
: from the same dream it means that had to.
who knows if these people gave each other their secrets during MWA, just combined their armies? like someone had only the proto-soulless and someone else (Bahl'al) had only the thrall, and those two guys combined them, just short of sharing the secrets
: But Wights were around during and before the Wolf Age,
: read above. Also, whether you like it or not, there
: were soulless in the Wolf Age. Since it is Myth
: in-game, it is canon. We'll see how they rationalize
: it, but it's still there.
shiver must have been older than we think then. soulless are in the screenshots so we'll have to accept whatever MJ comes up with :) finally some closure... coming Soon™
: But wait! Myrmidons, or their counterparts existed before
: Balor. They were a similar form of Undead called the
: "Forsaken." You can see them in some screens
: at MWA dot com.
i'd better not say anything until MWA comes out. when it comes to Myrms i know the least.
: Not really, you're onyl thinking in terms of really
: powerful dreams such as dispersal. If your Dream of
: Unlife existed there would be a very definate
: difference between creating a super form of undead and
: creating a huge amount of thrall. Quantity vs.
: quality.
true, but i don't really think a super form of undead can exist. super corpses? i don't think there can be a Quality issue here because a corpse is a corpse (of course, of course! hehe remember that jingle) therefore the only changes can be quantitative. although the nature of that corpse can be altered (ghast for newer corpses, thrall for older etc.).
: But from what we see in game, it does not. It seems to me
: that, since that is the most changed dream we've seen
: and all that's happened is that its visuals changed,
: there's not much more you can do.
what we see in the game is not nearly everything in the Myth world. I really really believe that Alric's dispersal dream ability is much more advanced than that of a shade's dispersal dream. Although in game it isn't, i dont think a dead avatar can best alric. just doesn't seem right at all, cuz alric is one of the strongest avatara, perhaps stronger than Mazzarin (who was strongest possibly only in the Wind? age). Point im trying to make is that Alric has better dispersal dream abilities than shades if Myth was a real universe.
: I seriously doubt he's a mage, but even if he is it
: should take great power to weild any sort of dream.
: Look at the warlocks, they are pretty powerful, but
: can't handle a Dream and so rely on their own magics.
hmm yeah you got point there. perhaps the Baron specialized and focused all his abilities on that one ability with the dream, whereas the Warlocks do all kinds of lesser spells and also other things like trading their own souls. Lack of soul might mean lack of Aura, which is likely Vital in dream casting (like dispersals). the baron has a soul for all we know and therefore might be able to cast the dream of unlife.
: On that same note, the warlocks have "normal"
: magic. This obviously means that such things as combat
: and defense spells exist within the mudane, instead of
: dream, magics. So why not Necromancy, eh?
that's a stab in the heart. really. ouch! what you said above is really the only thing i can't think to argue with. yet. because of that, things are starting to look worse for my side. thanks. alot. ;P
: Balor actually did _not_ pass around secrets. I present
: two examples of this. First he didn't share the spell
: of dimensional travel (with which he brought in the
: fetch) with anyone, making them stuck when he died.
: Second he didn't pass on (although it did exist in a
: proto form) the myrmidon spell, evidenced by their
: absense from SB's army.
perhaps he kept those two for himself because those were his in the first place. He Had to have passed around the ability to make thrall because thrall are in every Fallen's army. i dont think he just let the Watcher make them then divide them up, that would take too long. he could at least quadruple the amount of thrall being made by sharing that secret with SB, SHiver, and Myrdred.
: -Disc
-Welly
