: This is not true. Forrest had guessed as to that fact
: long before GURPS if I remember correctly.
absolutely forgot about that. I was playing Myth but hadn't taken interest in Myth Debating back then (see below more)
: Not necessarily true either. I wasn't there, but the
: feeling seem pretty deeply rooted. Someone like Sili
: or Forrest would have to verify this claim (unless you
: were around then… which I don't recall you being).
this one might be a little vague, but im pretty sure most people just assumed the text was referring to the origin of the thrall they were reading about when they read that flavor. what else would they think it would mean, if Bahl'al had not discovered the dream, that flavor would kind of be a complete waste of space.
to me thats like clicking on a roman centurian unit and reading a flavor about the failed exploits of Draco. makes no sense.
: I agree with Raven on the definition of Unlife here.
puppetry, yes i beleive that one too. Lack of life but moving body is puppet, which i believe is another name for undead.
: Now that's just not accurate. The flavor text refers to
: Bahl'al searching for the _Dream_of_Unlife_, a sort of
: obscure reference to something we don't know the power
: of. It doesn't read that the Watcher searched for the
: Thrall Dream which is what your example would imply.
that is, if you assume that the dream of unlife cannot make thrall. i believe that is one of the several things it can do.
: I think that the main reason most people don't think that
: the Dream of Unlife is what's used to make thrall,
: etc… is that Dreams are incredibly powerful magic
: requiring a huge expenditure of either energy or
: energy stored in an object. It wouldn't make sense for
: the Fallen Lords to be making huuuuuge thrall armies
: using this, especially since Dreams don't seem to come
: in mass varieties (i.e. the Deciever, even though
: famed for his charm skills can still only convert one
: unit at a time through the Binding Dream).
actually the "(evil) charm" used by the Deceiver in TFL might be different than the binding dream. take the MythQuiz again, you'll remember that there is a difference stated about. in TFL it appears that he could convert several people at a time, like when you defend your standard from the converted Bolgs and duffs... i don't really think he could convert them one at a time in such a situation, leading me to believe that he had more strength which Balor allowing him to use that evil charm to Convert more people at once.
: Also in addition to my argument, Soulless are undead,
: right? And therefor they would be animated with the
: Dream of Unlife by your reasoning. Yet we _know_ that
: Soulblighter experimented with them and that they've
: existed in several forms. This would mean that the
: Dream of Unlife is a dynamic form of magic, it can be
: bent to several purposes. Now from what we know of
: Dreams they are about as static magic as you can get.
thats a good arguement. but think about it like this: Finally, after all that searching, the unlife dream was discovered by Bahl'al. this dream quite possibly could be the most important discovery for the Dark, thus they would spend much time finding out all they could about it, i.e. discovering ways to manipulate it.
: We don't see the Biding dream being used for anything
: else but Binding and we don't see the Dispersal Dream
: being used for anything else but blowing up obscene
: amounts of enemies. True there could be other uses,
: but they are never mentioned. So from ingame evidence
: Dreams are static. Why should Unlife be any different?
I think it can be because it has never been said in the game or sources that it cannot be. Perhaps there are other uses for every dream, just no one has thought outside the box yet like SB and Shiver and Balor did with the dream of unlife. there are unboubtedly many other dreams lost in history, who knows if they had multiple uses?
again, i hope Myth III will bring some closure to this stuff. Wyrd knows debating is fun, but closure is... fun-ner.
:)
-Welly
PS: i've been playing myth since sometime in 97, but never got interested in the community aspect until i got a new computer around 1999 sometime. lately i've been adding to my editor collection and debating, things i should have been doing at the very beginning of my Myth life but alas did not.
call me a "somewhat late bloomer" hehehh 8D
