: As Sili pointed out, sometimes he wears the patch and
: sometimes he doesn't. I don't think this is indicitave
: of a double at all, he just wears it sometimes and
: sometimes not, or it's an artist goof. THE DECEIVER IS
: DEAD. We SAW him die with Shiver. And in-game evidence
: overrides everything else, isn't that what you all
: keep saying?
I don't. :-) And you'll recall that the original Deceiver-lives theories were also created on the strength of in-game evidence (postgame pics, narration and Soulblighter's failure to escape at the end).
: There is no discrepancy with Twice Born's statement of
: the Deceiver in present tense, because it and Shiver
: happen simultaneously (same day, at least). As for The
: Forge, where Soulblighter still can't flee, that could
: be because that part of him is now DEAD, along with
: the Deciever.
There are a *huge* number of discrepancies with the journals on The Wall, Shiver, Twice Born and The Forge. I'm very sure that Twice Born actually occurred on Monday--see my long boring post at
http://carnage.bungie.org/myth/asylum/asylum.forum.pl?read=10060
(which you said you agreed with once--although of course you're free to change your mind. :-)
Anyway, if that's correct then the statement implying the Deceiver's survival occurs two days after his apparent "death." And if the crow's death was all that was needed to stop Soulblighter, then it would have been irrelevant whether The Deceiver held onto it or not. It was already Kentucky-fried at the end of "A Murder of Crows."
: As for the Deciever's multiple deaths at the end of TFL,
: I think it's simple. Many Mythworlders seem to think
: he died after the battle with The Watcher. But we know
: for a fact that he 'died' in the Stair of Grief. We
: also know from TFL that he broke through the
: Cloudspine after Seven Gates.
: I think he fought with the Watcher at Seven Gates, was
: severely wounded or actually did die but cheated
: death, and then later broke through the Cloudspine
: into the west again to sack Madrigal. He was then
: battled back toward the Cloudspine, into the Stair of
: Grief, where he was finally "killed".
: Alric, Twelve Motion, etc, considered him as good as
: dead. After all, he's entombed in ice off near the
: Trow lands, and his scepter is lost in a maze of tiny
: icy canyons, and also buried in ice inside a frozen
: river. The only person who would know exactly where to
: find everything needed to bring him back was Twelve
: Motion, who would never do so for evil. So when
: Soulblighter comes, Alric says "lets fight fire
: with fire" and has Twelve Motion go get the
: scepter and revive the Deceiver.
Well, first of all, there's no such thing as "as good as dead" when applied to a Fallen Lord. "Yes, he's a super-powerful sorcerer, but hey, I saw him fall into a river and lose his scepter, so let's forget about him?" Giving up on finding Damas is understandable--no one knows what happened to him and he could be anywhere--but if they actually knew where Myrdred's comatose body lay, it'd only make sense for Alric to hike up there on a weekend and tear his head off.
Second, Alric didn't seem to even know the basics of what had happened to The Deceiver. He just "believed that the Deceiver still lived," and had yet to get the details from Twelve Motion. Only after "Through The Ermine" did Twelve Motion finally come out with his story of the Deceiver's undoing. That seems a bit irresponsible to me...
: Occam's razor and all that.
Says the man who introduced the concept of "contemporaneous reincarnations of the same spirit" into the Asylum. :-)
--SiliconDream
