: Uh-uh. Pre-release facts are definitely known to have
: been part of the game at some point, which is
: important info in its own right.
Not really. It was a part of the game before release, before changes were made. Besides, we have to go by the latest information presented to us, such as where Myth II changes things from TFL, so we go by what m2 says is true. Pre-release is now as useless as TFL, and even more-so because of the fact it wasn't intended to be anymore than a preview, just like we're getting from m3 now.
: Theories and plugins,
: on the other hand, contribute zero information. All
: they do is point toward ways to assemble our existing
: information into coherent structures. I'd rank it this
: way: 1) In-game: The storyline's core
: 2) Manuals, Tales from the Fallen Lords, and any hints
: dropped by Bungie employees--written by Bungie and
: intended to be consistent with the core world
: 3) Chimera and GURPS--not written entirely by Bungie, but
: nontheless released by them and intended and stated to
: be consistent with the core world
: 4) Pre-release info: Known to have been consistent with
: the core world in an earlier version, and therefore
: has a good chance of being valid in the release
: version
I can live with this; Pre-release is at the bottom :-).
: Plugins, theories, and any later games like Myth III are
: junk if you're trying to reconstruct the
: "true" world of Myth. If you're trying to
: reconstruct the
: Mythworld-as-defined-by-Bungie-and-Mumbo-Jumbo, say,
: or the Mythworld-as-defined-by-Bungie-and-Creation,
: these criteria will change, but you've got to say
: which consensus reality you're trying to piece
: together first.
: Note also that ranking in-game stuff above manuals and
: Tales is fairly arbitrary. If you believed in-game
: Myth without question, you'd believe that the Deceiver
: or a Mahir could beat Balor one-on-one, and that
: warriors can stand in one place for days on end
: without eating, sleeping, or even sitting down.
: Nowhere is it stated that Bungie paid closer attention
: to storyline when making the games than when making
: the manuals. Indeed, in general we might expect them
: to be laying out the story most meticulously and
: faithfully when they're writing text resources like
: manuals and narrations. Level designers have other
: concerns.
Not really. As I said elsewhere previous, the game that is presented to us, in the levels as well as the journal entries and cutscenes, is like a movie that we happen to play out. Sure, those are actors on the screen with their own, real lives, but they perform and act out something, as does the scenery and direction, indicating what it is supposed to be and what it represents. That's what theatre is. This happens to be a theatre type we can perform ourselves, and therefore keep from being entirely as it was meant to be.
Your example of Dec or a Mahir versus Balor doesn't work because it was never presented to us. Never ingame or inlevel were we told that those guys ever had a face off, and equally were never forced to perform in it. It's just a group of actors these sprites. The story is still there, and we can certainly look past something that never happened.
: Bungie states that GURPS is meant to provide valid
: information on the game world, so it is.
No, that's what the point of that scale was. Things outside ingame are fraught with flaws, especially GURPS. The manual also says that the Great Devoid was in the middle of the Barrier, so we make sure to realize that the manuals are not perfect, as GURPS, though they are very close.
: The first Myth wasn't Myth: The Fallen Lords And The Guy
: Who Led Them, was it? Many times in-game the Fallen
: Lords are referred to casually in a way which seems to
: embrace Balor. GURPS recognizes the two different
: meanings and employs them both--the seven Fallen Lords
: including Balor, or Balor with his six Fallen Lords.
: This isn't a flaw; GURPS is simply attempted to deal
: with an inconsistency already present in the Bungie
: storyline.
GURPS recognizes nothing but a flaw in writing, a typo at best in the manual. Even so, Myth II made the changes clear.
: Remember that these are popularly-used terms we're
: talking about--one Mythworlder may use them in a
: different way than another. You can't define the class
: of "Fallen Lords" in Myth any more sharply
: than the class of "Conservatives," or of
: "Liberals," in the US.
Sure you can. The Fallen Lords during the Great War were Soulblighter, The Watcher, The Deceiver, Shiver, and two others we were never given the names of. Other Fallen Lords maybe in other great wars, or perhaps Fallen Lords are simply very powerful Dark Archmages. We don't know because we weren't told.
: I think you mean "Why not Bonesplitter?"
: Forrest never said the Lurker wasn't a Lord. And
: Forrest's reasoning is that since the Lurker's a
: woman, she can't be the Faceless Man. So of the two
: pre-release names, Bonesplitter is more likely to
: correspond to the Lurker and the Faceless Man is more
: likely to correspond to an unknown remaining Lord, if
: one exists.
: And, by the way, we have pre-release info on Avatara
: names too. So the other Avatara aren't necessarily
: unnamed either.
Yes they are. We would have been given the names if we were meant to know them, but the movie was changed and the story altered, so it's not what happened anymore. It's like the original ending to Casa Blanca, as seen on The Simpsons; they stay together and everyone is happy. Obviously, that didn't happen. It's also like a rough draft to a revised draft of a novel or any other book. It simply isn't so until officially presented.
: I personally believe Shiver and Ravanna to be separate,
: but obviously they're intended to be linked in some
: way, and the theory that they're the same being is
: perfectly valid and straightforward--there's a Myth II
: character named both "Shiver" and
: "Ravanna," for God's sake. GURPS explained
: quite clearly what happened in-game, and drew the
: obvious inference that perhaps Shiver and Ravanna
: *are* the same being. In which case there would have
: to be another Lord.
This whole thing about Ravanna and such sounds like something Gene Seabolt invented. He has no credit whatsoever by how many mistakes are in GURPS. It's like a real debate; lose credit one place, credit lost every place.
LOL! Quite clearly what happened, you say? Including the part where its says that Myrdred yet walks Sword Age Earth? He didn't finish the level; he is utterly flawed himself. It's a shame, but we just need the original documents.
»–)›
