: While I didn't have a great reaction to those books in hindsight, and while
: I'd still struggle to read them due to how blatantly hypocritical the
: characters are, in hindsight I understand that was the point. Up until the
: post-war era, Humanity had a bit of a moral blank check. However, the
: Spartan program wasn't created under those conditions and that speaks to
: the kind of organization the UNSC really is. K5 is the story of the ugly
: other half and how Humanity has its own problems that arguably make them
: as irredeemable as some Humans perceive the Sangheili and other Covenant
: races to be. (not that anyone is necessarily irredeemable, just that they
: all have some serious flaws as species and to look down on any other is
: the pot calling the kettle black)

Nah. It was bad writing, even if it was completely intentional.

The Spartan Program is a moral black mark, but the criticism that Traviss put in the mouths of her characters is... what, Halsey is Josef Mengele because the Spartan II program had strict genetic requirements? That the Spartan IIIs are morally superior because the children volunteered? That using clones to cover for the disappeared Spartans was absolutely beyond the pale, but Parangosky is somehow guiltless because she didn't know? That nobody is good because everyone is a hypocrite?

It's all garbage.

I'd say that the Nylund novels were more morally complex because they presented these programs (And later the justifications in the Carver Findings) and let the reader decide whether it was justified. And at least Halsey had consistent characterization in that she knew she was crossing moral lines, but did so because she believed it was necessary. When everything she did failed to prevent the destruction of Humanity, all that guilt came crashing down on her, so she did her damndest to make up for it by finding a fallout shelter for her Spartans.

Likewise, Silent Storm handled the subject much more maturely. When an ODST commander finds out t what the Spartans are, he yanks them from the mission. He's not about to send child soldiers into battle, and the Spartans eventually earn their place by proving that they are more than children. That's how you handle moral complexity. Author tracts are childish.

: 343i went hard on a distasteful Humanity in the post-war, and while I think
: that actually makes a lot of sense, that's really hard to pivot to after a
: decade of triumph with a healthy heaping of blinders in the media you've
: presented.

Yeah. If I wanted to watch a show about corrupt, power-hungry governments and people being dicks to each other for the sake of being dicks, I'd go watch The Expanse. Not trying to throw this in your face or anything, but I'm just so frustrated at the spate of science fiction that tried to be morally grey and mature over the last decade, but didn't have the intelligence or the writing chops to pull it off.

Folks need heroes.

The UNSC is always going to be the good guy, if only because we are rooting for characters like Captain Keyes and the Marines who fight by our side. Yes, certain segments of th UNSC have chosen to raise child soldiers to put down rebellions, but 1% of 1% of the UNSC chose to take part in that project. The line between good and evil is drawn through the hearts of all men, and the same is true of organizations.

Shit. Sorry. I am quite drunk at the moment and not sure which idea I am trying to articulate. Let's try bullet points.

»A government is many hands joining... fuck. There is a really good analogy in the Lost Fleet series, but it escapes me. Point is, governments are the sum of many actors, some working at cross purposes. Itmis quite possible for some sectors of a government to be sniping unarmed mothers and burning down a compound full of women and children, and yet the government as a whole is mostly full of good guys who are responsive to the will of the people.

»Turning ONI from a ruthless-yet-pragmatic organization to a clone of Cerberus was a mistake.

»Readers are intelligent. You don't have to beat theem over the head with a message or turn established characters into hypocrites to explore a moral theme.