DATE: 1/23/99 at 5:15 p.m.
Reply To: (#248) Re: Thoughts: The Watcher / other Fallen
Author: Forrest Cameran
Date: 1/22/99 at 10:31 a.m.
There are four possibilities, Tiger:
1.) You misunderstood Zartman, or
2.) Zartman was giving you wrong information on purpose, or
3.) Zartman himself was confused or preoccupied or didn't think it mattered
and therefore he could give any fool answer, or,
4.) Forrest and I are wrong.
It does not make a whole lot of sense for Bahl'al to be Balor. We have all of
Forrest's info, but also, it does not make a whole lot of sense for Bahl'al to
Why would he search the the ruined palaces of the Trow for the "dream of
"...Having learned Balor's greatest greatest secret, the reanimation of the
Recognize that? Myth2 manual text. Follow my logic here.
1.) The Leveler has been returning in cycles for "countless eons," of which
the most recent are remembered by history as the Wolf Age, the Wind Age, etc.
But the fact remains that he has been leveling the world basically forever.
2.) As a God, a transcient divinity, would he not already know about the Dream
of Unlife? I mean, he's had a little experience, several million years worth,
of experience doing this sort of thing, therefore,
3.) Why would he, as the Myth1 Thrall flavor text says, have to "search the
ruined palaces and temples of the Trow for the Dream of Unlife...?" Did he
forget it or something?
4) Obviously not. Therefore Bahl'al is not Balor. But who is he, then?
5.) I propose he is the Watcher.
6.) Given that Balor already knew the Dream of Unlife, why would he not pass
along this knowledge to his generals? Why make Bahl'al (the Watcher) search
7.) Remember that quote I gave you? "Having learned Balor's greatest
SECRET,..." Balor did not want others to know about this, Soulblighter found
the knowledge and then it broke the cycle. This is a bad thing. The Watcher
might have returned in Myth2 as well, had he not been killed in Myth. But why
did the Watcher want to know this? Why go behind Balor's back?
8.) Power. To defeat the his enemies, among them The Deciever. Lets face it,
having Shades on your side is a very powerful advantage. Why did Balor not
punish him for his arrogance and disobeying Balor's orders? If the Watcher is
destined to break the cycle, as Soulblighter did, would it not be safer to
9.) Perhaps Balor DID punish the Watcher. Are we supposed to believe that a
handful of Bowmen can sneak into the Watcher's camp and get within bowshot of
him to turn him to stone? And then, why do we face so few enemies when we try
to get him? Why isn't his entire army there guarding him?
10.) Balor called them away. Notice that the only real enemies you face are
two shades. Yes, shades, loyal to the Watcher, with a will of their own. The
thousands of Thrall the Watcher must have? Conspicuously absent. So why do you
face ANY thrall at all in this level?
11.) "...Those that Phelot deemed unsuitable for Thrall were given to the
12.) Shades can raise Thrall
13.) The few you face are the pitiful handful the two shades manages to raise
before your army arrived...
It all makes sense.. :)
MESSAGE: (#307) Bone Splitter
AUTHOR: henry, villager
DATE: 2/2/99 at 4:12 a.m.
Reply To: (#306) Re: The Summoner
Author: Forrest Cameran
Date: 2/1/99 at 9:32 p.m.
: Whatever happened to the fifth? We've only met four;
: Soulblighter (Damas, Twice Born), The Watcher
: (Bahl'al, Mad Goat of the Fens), Shiver (Ravanna, The
: Voiceless One), and The Deceiver (Myrdred, Source of
: the Five Hundred Poisons). The other two are
: Bonesplitter and The Faceless Man, the details of
: which are unknown.
Now I'm not a Myth history expert but I have a question on the name Bone
Splitter. I'm almost sure of having seen that name on the flavor text part on
a myrmidon. You know, where his name is. Their names are usually like Skull
Crusher or Throat Cutter. Another thing is, at least from what other people
have said, how do you know that The Watcher is Bahl'al? Just 'cause he has the
most Thrall and shades doesn't mean he IS Bal'hal. And what about Shiver? I
always thought that The Voiceless One was a totally different Fallen Lord. I
don't think I know near as much as you do about Myth, but i'm basing my
information and doubts from what other people think.
Unfortunately I don't have my own messages archived, but I can summarize what I had put forth in those threads now. In pre-release info, the six Fallen were listed as Bahl'al, Bonesplitter, Soulblighter, The Deceiver, The Faceless Man, and The Voiceless One. Bonesplitter, The Deceiver, and The Faceless Man were all "turned from the Light", while Bahl'al, Soulblighter, and The Voiceless One were all "Ancient Evils". The current Fallen Lords that we know of are Shiver, Soulblighter, The Deceiver, and The Watcher. What this means is that two of the four known Fallen used to be known by different names, and another two Fallen are never seen. Soulblighter and The Deceiver are themselves. So we've got to match both Shiver and The Watcher to either Bahl'al, Bonesplitter, The Faceless Man, or The Voiceless One.
What do we know about Bahl'al? He searched the sunken Trow cities for the dream of unlife, the ability to create undead. He is mentioned in the Thrall flavor texts, both in Myth 1 and 2, and this makes sense. As the dream of unlife was Balor's secret, none of the other Fallen should have known about it, except for Bahl'al who found it on his own. So which of the Fallen is most associated with undead units like Thrall and Shades? The Watcher. Also note that Thrall were created at Avon's Grove by the Shade Phelot. Shades act as conduits for the Fallen's magic. Who was around Avon's Grove at that time? Shiver and The Watcher. But Bahl'al is reffered to as masculine in Myth II, so he can't be Shiver, a woman. Also note that The Watcher is very ancient and very evil, limiting him to being either Bahl'al or The Voiceless One. We never do see hear him speak, but with the above evidence taken into account I believe he is Bahl'al.
So that leaves us with Shiver, who is also an ancient evil. What's the only ancient evil name left untaken? The Voiceless One. This leaves The Faceless Man and Bonesplitter as the two unseen Fallen.
So, we've got:
Bahl'al (The Watcher), Mad Goat of the Fens
Bonesplitter (Bonesplitter), Bonesplitter
Damas (Soulblighter), Twice Born
Myrdred (The Deceiver), Source of the Five Hundred Poisons
The Faceless Man (The Faceless Man), The Faceless Man
Ravanna (Shiver), The Voiceless One
Disagree? Great! Lets get it on!