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Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2
Posted By: mothergoatDate: 12/1/04 8:15 p.m.

I love you all. This is the best community ever. You guys have really supported my anthems and music. I thank you so much for that.

This is a long read. But it's my essay expressing my quandaries with Halo 2. Keep in mind that I love Halo 2 as a video game. Just...not as a Halo game. Also keep in mind these are merely opinions. And this is just a video game. :) Of course, it's a video game that I loved very, very much :)

--------
Fixing What Wasn’t Broken:

Reflections on Halo 2


Please note: This is a critique not compared to video games in general, but compared to Halo 1, the best first-person shooter on a console. Halo 2 is a good game compared to most games, but definitely not Halo 1. Although some of the contentions may seem intense, I am not ashamed of my opinions. Bungie is full of great guys that I respect and I know they welcome criticism and hopefully will listen to the many disconcerted fans across the world when trying to get the series back on track with Halo 3.

Bungie, with Microsoft’s huge push no doubt, has delivered a marketing juggernaut that has successfully blinded many casual fans and critics with hype. This creation is Halo 2, an obviously rushed title that over-promised and under-delivered. This doesn’t boil down to some simple pistol debate or 11-year-old flaming forum thread. I am going to argue that Bungie may not really understand why Halo 1 was as great as it was. The truth is in Halo 2 and the baffling changes, including uninspired level design (both single and multiplayer), how dual wielding ruins single wielding and many, many other things. Halo has lost a lot of its "jaded crowd" feel. Halo has lost a lot of its identity.

“We are the jaded crowd.” -Jason Jones

Reviewers of Autumn

Bungie invited the most popular critics from EGM to IGN out to the west coast to spend a week with Halo 2 as their time to review the game for their respective publications. Unlike every other game, where we critics get advanced reviewable copies of games, either retail or debug, Bungie didn’t let anyone important have a copy in their hands until November 8. This was a bit fishy. Of course, this was under the guise of “protecting the story.” Really? None of the aforementioned publications’ reviews contained spoilers because of a strict embargo, anyway. By this time, the reviews were already written, not reflecting on in depth time spent with the title. It was this odd review process that I believe made Bungie hope that the big time critics would not get the chance to experience the rushed aspects and the impact of the deeper changes in the game. Plus, the hype was huge. Halo 2 getting insanely high scores sells magazines. Period. We gave it a 90 out of 100 and man did we get hate mail for an A- score.

Hollow

“You could fit all of Halo 1 into a canyon of Halo2.” -Bungie
Huh? That definitely doesn’t apply to the length of time is takes from beginning to end. Playing Halo 1 on Normal is still much longer than Halo 2 on Heroic. Halo 2 is short. It doesn’t matter if you rush through it or take your time…it’s shorter. So maybe this quote was about the actual file size of the levels. Maybe you could the file size of Halo 1 into a file size of a canyon in Halo 2 since it theoretically had more complex geometry. That has to be what that quote meant.

The length definitely won’t be spent standing around in awe at the grand landscapes. Halo 2’s repeated corridors, weirdly cartoony jungle environments, confusing layouts yet linear design don’t ever seem to try to touch such architecture, purpose, landscapes and playscapes of Halo 1 levels like Halo, Assault on the Control Room, Silent Cartographer or Truth and Reconciliation. I felt claustrophobic on too many of the levels of Halo 2. Especially the outdoor levels, ironically.

Truth and Rehabilitation

“It will be released when it’s done.” -Bungie
True or False: Bungie took three years to develop Halo 2. False. Watch the DVD extras. Halo 2 was rushed in every way. Much of it was created almost from the ground up in one year flat. After the E3 single player demo, they realized they had next to nothing done. The strong, dignified mantra of “when it’s done” was reduced to a mere “we work better under pressure anyway” retort from the documentary footage. That’s actually not true. Halo 1 had more care and time in development than Halo 2. It shows in Halo 2’s poppy cinematics (If you have to fade to white after every cinema, it disrupts the flow just as much as the loading screens that Bungie traded the pop-in for. The end of the cinemas in Halo 1 were actual gameplay. No fades.) It also shows in the short campaign. It shows in the lack of new vehicles. It shows in the lack of multiplayer level design. It shows in the undeniably imbalanced starting weapons on XBL. It shows in the ending.

The only excuse that Bungie may have (that would still be poor) is that Microsoft decided that Halo 3 has to be an Xbox Next release title, which is a mere one year away. So Bungie would’ve had to scrap most of the ideas for Halo 2 to save them for 3, rushing that title out as well. It’s a popular theory right now, but doesn’t excuse many other changes. Read on.

Silent Denominator

Much of Halo 2 multiplayer caters to casual gamers who can’t aim. Halo 1 catered to people who wanted to get better. I’m not going to drone on about the dumbing down of the pistol. (Despite too long of a range, the pistol’s accuracy and power is one of Halo 1’s great assets that set it apart in a good way. And no Noguchi, I was NOT one of the pistol sniping whores. I hardly used the pistol.) However, why Bungie chose to dumb down good weapons instead of bring others up is beyond me. Catering to the lowest common denominator could only be a motivation of fear that Halo 2 wouldn’t sell nearly as many copies. Ironically, the only reason Halo 2 is selling so well is BECAUSE of how Halo 1 played, not in spite of.

The rocket is nowhere near as effective, even though homing is a nice touch. The Battle Rifle and Carbine are no substitute for the pistol. Most weapons you will encounter are based on spraying and praying. It’s clear that Bungie wants the game dynamics this way since you always spawn with the SMG. No longer is the dynamic focused on who can aim better, glorifying Halo’s wonderfully tight controls, but rather who can get the reticule to turn red and pull the trigger first. It’s as if Bungie made Halo 2 multiplayer for Quake, Doom and Unreal fans rather than Halo fans. We didn’t need another spray and pray multiplayer.

These changes were supposed to “balance” gameplay for more “fun.” But the fantastic ranking system on XBL does a great job of pairing you with like skill anyway, so why mess with the weapon playscape? Those who love to run around with bullet hoses won’t be as good and will be paired with like players. Those who excel and like to aim will get better and rise in the rankings, being paired with their like skill. With so much focus on spray and pray, the rankings will become less accurate, undermining the purpose of the rankings system.

Assault on the Grenade Boom

The change that is not recoverable via download and the one change that dampened much of the satisfaction I got from playing Halo 1 single and multiplayer is the newly nerfed physics engine. Puzzling. Disappointing. This is the one area that Bungie was absolutely silent about changing. Did Bungie really think we wouldn’t notice? Not only is the blast radius of a grenade and rocket severely and reduced for no good reason, but the force with which they impact a vehicle is not only unsatisfying but hardly existent.

I remember Blood Gulch (Halo 1). I saw an enemy warthog incoming. I threw an accurately placed grenade to detonate on the backside of the moving hog. The hog would gloriously fly with correct trajectory, killing some or all of the passengers while a great deal of rewarding satisfaction came over me as the wonderful explosion animation full of dirt and grass subsided. In Halo 2, the hog keeps on going, not flinching. In fact, place a grenade by any non-moving vehicle. It hardly moves. Makes sense for tanks and Wraiths just like Halo 1, but grenades and the physics have lost almost all of their fun factor.

The minute I saw that Bungie was using the Havok physics engine I knew I should probably prepare for the reduction in fun but with exaggerated body movements. So was it so that the net code would be smoother? If so, it still wasn’t a good tradeoff. Halo lost a ton of personality with the physics changes.

343 Lonely Spartan

I am all about playing as the Arbiter. Great twist! But the human element of Earth’s destruction is non-existent. We’ve been led on with “Earth will never be the same” for the sole purpose of setting us up for the big twist. Earth is neglected almost entirely. The ending sets up a second level on Earth, but of course, the credits start to roll. I wanted to learn about Chief. The story seems way too rushed and convoluted. This really lends a lot to the Halo 3 next year theory. Since Halo 2 essentially ends where we thought it would start.

The Asymmetry

[Something like] “When you see a map, you’ll say ‘hey, that reminds me of a single-player location.’” – Bungie

Somehow, Bungie listened to the wrong people. Since when does asymmetry = better? It may look like a more “realistic” locale, but what does realism have to do with a game that features aliens, cybernetically enhanced super-soldiers, slipspace jumps and ring-shaped planets? Aside from the fact that there are ridiculously few multiplayer maps to begin with, most of them are really, really, dull. Although more graphically detailed, the overall design in both symmetrical and asymmetrical maps leaves much to be desired. Aside from Lockout, Midship and Headlong, Halo 1, Gearbox’s Halo PC maps and some select maps from the Halo CE community kick these maps in the rear. Why? These maps had “fun” in mind first and foremost.

I remember visiting Gearbox in Dallas before Halo CE was released. We were talking about what makes a good multiplayer map since I planned on diving into mapmaking. I’ll never forget what I believe is the best advice for any aspiring developer. “Multiplayer maps are all about moments. You have to build moments into your map or it will be boring.” So true. Gearbox did a magnificent job with their PC maps. Perfectly moment-crafted and perfect for Halo. Halo 2 makes another dip into the dull and ordinary with many moment-less maps.

What also makes the 11 Halo 2 maps (Foundation doesn’t even count), feel even less in number is that time wasn’t taken to make them friendly for all gametypes. I could play almost any gametype on any Halo 1 map and feel it was fun. Halo 2, not so much. While this isn’t necessarily a horrible thing, the fact that it exists should’ve prompted Bungie to release at least twice the maps with the shipped version of Halo 2.

The Halo 2 maps just don’t scream Halo.

“Real” Betrayals

It’s apparent from the DVD extras that much time and money was spent on making some of Halo 2 seem more “real.” There are endless cries and defenses on several Halo forums citing “well at least it’s more real” as a valid defense for the weapons debate, multiplayer maps and so on.

Let’s get this straight. Reality is boring. That is why video games excel. Games are NOT reality and can transport you into a fictional world full of fun. Instead of making Halo more “Halo,” Bungie chose to make the weapons and mp landscapes more “real” in a sci-fi world full of aliens and ring worlds. So in real life, a bullet hose would cause so much force that you couldn’t keep it level. Okay. So what happened to the superhuman strength of a Spartan? Apparently those SMGs pack so much punch that even Chief has a hard time keeping ‘em down. Why make the most common gun have such a drawback when it’s the weakest to begin with?

Screw reality. Exalt fun.

Keys

Vehicles. Poof! They’re gone. We get to drive a Wraith and a Spectre now. Okay, cool. What? That’s it? Where is the human answer to the Banshee? The Kestrel was there. Ready to go. Perfectly in place as a cool new air ride. Not even in single player. Couldn’t tame the ATV? I don’t buy it. It flipped too much? So does the new ‘hog. But there is a rolling assistance that usually gets the ‘hog back on its wheels. Could’ve done the same with the ATV.

The new Banshee handling is bad. It can no longer hover. Worried about Banshee camping? Just make it more fragile. It wasn’t that bad in PC at all. Even with the fuel rod pulse bomb thing. I played PC religiously and NEVER was Banshee whoring a factor in non-noob games.

The new warthog isn’t as fun, either. In Halo 1, the ‘hog would always automatically compensate for wherever the reticule was pointing despite the swervy wervy-ness of it. Whoever said that the Warthog handling needed to change was wrong. It was easy to get used to. Now it’s wound so tight that it’s hardly fun to use anymore even with the e-brake. Even using ramps isn’t as fun. The air it gets feels stale and ordinary…like the UT 2004 vehicle physics. Blah.

The Paws

Dual wielding is a great idea on paper and works really well in single player. But in multiplayer when you always spawn with one short range bullet hose, especially the uber-weak SMG, it’s off to the races to find at least something else. Single wielding a dual-capable weapon is an immediate imbalance. By making dual wielding a focus, you immediately cut the usability of just one of those weapons in half. Instead of concentrating on strategy or defending your flag when you respawn, you have the added task of finding something useful to dual wield so that when you engage in the spray and pray battle, you have at least a hope.

Let me say, again, that there was no reason to make the pistol weaker. Just make the other weapons stronger. One of Halo 1’s awesome assets that set it apart from spray and pray shooters was the weapon set. That is all but lost. And for the love of God, Bungie, give the ranked gamers a medium range weapon to spawn with.

Legendary

I think Halo 2 is a great game. It’s definitely the best Xbox Live title by leaps and bounds. I only critique Halo 2 against its legendary predecessor. It’s pretty unfair, I know. But at the same time, I find it a big bummer that Bungie seems to have fixed what was never broken, rushed a timeless property and created a game that pales under Halo 1’s shining example of how to be different. Aside from boarding, most of the changes were not for the best, in my humble opinion. Halo 2 takes the series closer to the feel of Unreal, Quake, etc. It should’ve been the exact opposite. I hope Halo 3 redeems the series and regains that awesome identity we know and love from Halo 1.

In the end, I will be playing a lot of Halo 2 on XBL because Halo 1 isn’t on there. I guarantee you that if Halo 1 was re-released with the same Xbox Live capabilities, more people would prefer Halo 1. No doubt in my mind.


Message Index




Replies:

Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2mothergoat 12/1/04 8:15 p.m.
     Noice (Aussie Accent)Ghost Darkfire 12/1/04 8:29 p.m.
           Re: Noice (Aussie Accent)TalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:39 a.m.
           Re: Noice (Aussie Accent)Mothergoat 12/2/04 8:40 a.m.
     ^^ Well said *nm* *NM*saint.duo 12/1/04 8:39 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Peptuck 12/1/04 8:45 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2ragn4rokk 12/1/04 8:47 p.m.
     BravoSomeone 12/1/04 8:57 p.m.
           Re: BravoGre'Thor 12/1/04 9:04 p.m.
                 Re: BravoMikeMan445 12/1/04 10:28 p.m.
                       Re: BravoGre'Thor 12/2/04 8:55 a.m.
                             Re: BravoMasterGrunt_Yayap-117 12/2/04 5:53 p.m.
     Bravo *NM*Jamirus99 12/1/04 9:01 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Keith 12/1/04 9:09 p.m.
           I agree with him. ^^^Saint [lpn] 12/1/04 9:12 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/1/04 9:14 p.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2ringthree 12/2/04 3:58 p.m.
                       Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2JakeDaGreat 12/2/04 4:37 p.m.
                             Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/2/04 4:52 p.m.
                       Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/2/04 4:54 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Hybrid-X-Ultima 12/1/04 9:37 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2box 12/3/04 12:02 p.m.
                 BTW ^^^ that was directed toward Keith's reply *NM*box 12/3/04 12:06 p.m.
     Well saidGrady 12/1/04 9:11 p.m.
           Re: Well saidHybrid-X-Ultima 12/1/04 9:26 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Hybrid-X-Ultima 12/1/04 9:11 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/1/04 9:17 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Ducain 12/1/04 9:35 p.m.
     Nice write up. :)Zero Flaw (E Nomini Patri) 12/1/04 9:40 p.m.
     Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*gspawn 12/1/04 9:56 p.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*Jamirus99 12/1/04 10:13 p.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:15 p.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*Mothergoat 12/2/04 12:57 a.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*Woogy 12/2/04 2:19 p.m.
           Another difference possibility...Blitzwolf 12/2/04 5:26 p.m.
           Couple things...ViolentlyHappy 12/2/04 7:36 p.m.
           This guy rules! *NM* *NM*7h3_h0ck3y_w1z 12/3/04 2:37 a.m.
           Re: Has to be nit-picked.... *sp* *long*[§]Zéù$ 12/6/04 8:14 p.m.
                 Halo CENarcogen 12/6/04 11:49 p.m.
     I guess I agree with a lot of that but...stan 12/1/04 10:04 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2343winks 12/1/04 10:04 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:20 p.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2343winks 12/1/04 10:36 p.m.
                       Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:51 p.m.
                             Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MikeMan445 12/2/04 12:03 a.m.
                                   Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Hybrid-X-Ultima 12/2/04 5:43 a.m.
                                         Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2GaMMa 12/2/04 11:36 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2TalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:15 a.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2343winks 12/2/04 5:22 p.m.
     I completely disagree in every way.MikeMan445 12/1/04 10:10 p.m.
           Re: I completely disagree in every way.Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:26 p.m.
                 Until the bell cracks that is. *NM*stan 12/1/04 10:27 p.m.
                       Re: Until the bell cracks that is.MSN 12/2/04 1:40 p.m.
                             Re: Until the bell cracks that is.mnemesis 12/2/04 2:21 p.m.
                 Re: I completely disagree in every way.MikeMan445 12/1/04 10:31 p.m.
                       Re: I completely disagree in every way.Mothergoat 12/1/04 10:54 p.m.
                             Re: I completely disagree in every way.AeroJonesy 12/1/04 11:39 p.m.
                                   Re: I completely disagree in every way.Saint [lpn] 12/1/04 11:45 p.m.
                                         Re: I completely disagree in every way.Mothergoat 12/2/04 12:47 a.m.
                                         Re: I completely disagree in every way.madcowjim 12/2/04 12:14 p.m.
                                               Re: I completely disagree in every way.Mothergoat 12/2/04 1:43 p.m.
                 Re: I completely disagree in every way.Infininja 12/5/04 1:20 a.m.
           change for change's sakeTalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:05 a.m.
                 Re: change for change's sakeMikeMan445 12/2/04 1:38 p.m.
           Re: I completely disagree in every way.MacDjinn 12/4/04 2:42 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2ctishman 12/2/04 1:17 a.m.
     What game have you been playing?C-B 12/2/04 2:50 a.m.
           Re: What game have you been playing?TalkingElmo 12/2/04 4:50 a.m.
                 Re: What game have you been playing?C-B 12/2/04 5:39 a.m.
                       Re: What game have you been playing?TalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:50 a.m.
                             Re: What game have you been playing?C-B 12/2/04 6:32 a.m.
                                   Re: What game have you been playing?TalkingElmo 12/2/04 11:14 a.m.
                                         Re: What game have you been playing?C-B 12/2/04 5:05 p.m.
     Thank You MothergoatStanton 12/2/04 3:38 a.m.
           Re: Thank You MothergoatTalkingElmo 12/2/04 5:56 a.m.
     THIS IS NOT A REVIEWMothergoat 12/2/04 8:32 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mathijs Buster 12/2/04 11:04 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2AZC 12/2/04 11:40 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2True Monkey King 12/2/04 11:44 a.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2madcowjim 12/2/04 12:06 p.m.
     pistol and the bansheespaceghost 12/2/04 11:48 a.m.
           Re: pistol and the bansheeMothergoat 12/2/04 1:45 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Strangepurple 12/2/04 11:57 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Strangepurple 12/2/04 11:58 a.m.
                 He Writes for www.Lawrence.com *NM*Mintz08 12/2/04 12:30 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/2/04 1:48 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MegaManfre 12/2/04 12:23 p.m.
     A Few CommentsSyracuse022 12/2/04 12:29 p.m.
           Re: A Few CommentsStrangepurple 12/2/04 12:38 p.m.
           EXACTLYMikeMan445 12/2/04 1:49 p.m.
                 Re: EXACTLYMothergoat 12/2/04 1:56 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2FauxHammer 12/2/04 12:36 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Mothergoat 12/2/04 2:00 p.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2FauxHammer 12/2/04 3:00 p.m.
     Thank YouBeoren 12/2/04 1:04 p.m.
     Of Physics - Clarificationmothergoat 12/2/04 1:08 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Fathersheep 12/2/04 1:13 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2HALOHUMAN 12/2/04 1:21 p.m.
     Well written... *NM*CYBRFRK 12/2/04 1:32 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MthdDirector 12/2/04 1:40 p.m.
     My say on the matterscottisonfire 12/2/04 1:58 p.m.
           Maybe i'm crazy but here's what i thinkGhentec 12/2/04 6:22 p.m.
                 Re: Maybe i'm crazy but here's what i thinkscottisonfire 12/2/04 8:36 p.m.
     Re: lol "when keepin' it real goes wrong" *NM*Mantis819 12/2/04 2:01 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Gotenks1215 12/2/04 2:15 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Blue Dragon 12/2/04 2:48 p.m.
     Reaction to Mothergoat and othersMa1agate 12/2/04 3:08 p.m.
           Re: Reaction to Mothergoat and othersMothergoat 12/2/04 3:26 p.m.
                 Re: Reaction to Mothergoat and othersMadMan42 12/2/04 4:51 p.m.
     I loved halo 2 (*ending was great*)MacDjinn 12/2/04 4:25 p.m.
           Halo 2 is better (rant)Trainee 12/2/04 5:34 p.m.
                 Realistic vs feeling RealBey Bey Bey 12/3/04 8:40 a.m.
     Right there with yaRockhard 12/2/04 4:32 p.m.
     halo 1 on liveLatekid 12/2/04 4:45 p.m.
           Halo 1.5smitty15 12/2/04 6:47 p.m.
     Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!Bey Bey Bey 12/2/04 5:07 p.m.
           Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!Trainee 12/2/04 5:40 p.m.
           Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!madcowjim 12/2/04 5:55 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!Bey Bey Bey 12/3/04 8:25 a.m.
           Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!jfitzell 12/2/04 6:59 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 2 was rushed? What about Halo 1?!?!Bey Bey Bey 12/3/04 8:08 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Hallway Giant 12/2/04 5:11 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Let_Me_Live 12/2/04 5:37 p.m.
     YAH2OOmniscient 12/2/04 6:34 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2eiii 12/2/04 6:50 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MthdDirector 12/2/04 7:44 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Fr0stbyte124 12/2/04 10:07 p.m.
     Missing: sensation?coldfreak 12/2/04 7:58 p.m.
           Re: Missing: sensation?Strangepurple 12/2/04 8:29 p.m.
           Re: Missing: sensation?Bey Bey Bey 12/3/04 1:00 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2MSN 12/2/04 9:37 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Strangepurple 12/2/04 10:39 p.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2ThorsHammer 12/2/04 11:22 p.m.
                       Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Strangepurple 12/2/04 11:45 p.m.
                             Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2no7orious 12/3/04 3:42 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2no7orious 12/3/04 3:44 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2vector40 12/2/04 9:49 p.m.
           Dude!KOPD 12/2/04 10:02 p.m.
           Halo againzedd 12/2/04 10:11 p.m.
           The most eloquent response, by far.MikeMan445 12/3/04 1:54 a.m.
                 Now...vector40 12/3/04 5:20 a.m.
                       Re: Now...Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 12/3/04 7:57 a.m.
                 Re: The most eloquent response, by far.Mothergoat 12/3/04 8:53 a.m.
                       Re: The most eloquent response, by far.Fr0stbyte124 12/3/04 3:00 p.m.
                       Re: The most eloquent response, by far.vector40 12/3/04 8:56 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Starkillah 12/3/04 1:05 a.m.
     reviews like this are killing the communityfludblud 12/3/04 2:39 a.m.
           Re: reviews like this are killing the communityno7orious 12/3/04 3:39 a.m.
                 Re: reviews like this are killing the communityEric 12/3/04 5:08 a.m.
                       Re: reviews like this are killing the communityno7orious 12/3/04 6:09 a.m.
                             Re: reviews like this are killing the communityEric 12/3/04 5:35 p.m.
           Re: reviews like this are killing the communitySep7imus [subnova] 12/3/04 8:32 a.m.
                 Re: reviews like this are killing the communityMothergoat 12/3/04 8:45 a.m.
                 Re: reviews like this are killing the communityfludblud 12/5/04 1:53 a.m.
     95% agreement *NM*HK HUNTRKILLR 12/3/04 6:05 a.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2NokMok 12/3/04 8:44 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Sep7imus [subnova] 12/3/04 9:06 a.m.
                 Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2NokMok 12/3/04 12:28 p.m.
                       Re: of XBL / system Link Co-OpSep7imus [subnova] 12/3/04 12:32 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Ruum 12/3/04 3:48 p.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Jammaster 12/3/04 11:25 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2[§]Zéù$ 12/4/04 1:56 p.m.
     Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Infininja 12/5/04 1:22 a.m.
           Re: Mothergoat's Second Opinion of Halo 2Sovietvalor 12/15/04 7:01 p.m.



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