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Minor correction and addition.
By:Gravemind
Date: 9/16/13 9:53 pm
In Response To: More on evolution and comparative anatomy. (Gravemind)

: To these (a pug and a Great Dane), among others:

: But even then, the difference is in the overall proportions (the Great Dane's
: skull is very wolf-like, while the pug's has a reduced snout/flatter face,
: larger eye sockets, and is much smaller overall). While it does show how
: much variation can be produced within a species, it's still totally
: artificial. In nature, there is very little morphological difference
: between subspecies of a given species. The natural subspecies of Canis
: lupus are all largely indistinguishable from each other. Same for the
: various tiger subspecies (e.g., Bengal, Sumatran, Siberian). The untrained
: eye would be unable to tell them apart.

Speaking of the pug's skull. It's overall morphology has many features indicative of what is called neoteny or paedomorphism, the retention of juvenile features into adulthood. The Wiki articles on lap dogs and the origins of the domestic dog and this blog post mention breeding dogs that retained neotenized or "cute" features like small size, reduced snout, flatter face, bigger eyes in relation to the head, and so on, as well as neotenized behaviors (being more sociable and docile like young grey wolves). Just look at how cute this grey wolf puppy is:

And here's what's supposedly the skeleton of a newborn wolf being shown in a museum or exhibit of some kind:

Just compare that with the wolf and dog skulls in my previous post.

: You have to go up to the taxonomic level of family to get differences in
: morphology and skeletal structure between member species of the same
: taxon.

That should read "to get significant differences."


Messages In This Thread

Story info in H4 Essential Visual Guidezofinda9/15/13 10:53 am
     Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideDEEP NNN9/15/13 11:47 am
           Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideStephen L. (SoundEffect)9/15/13 2:32 pm
                 Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideDEEP NNN9/15/13 3:50 pm
     Autumn-class cruiser?Grizzlei9/15/13 11:51 am
           Re: Autumn-class cruiser?zofinda9/15/13 12:24 pm
     Cool! *NM*Revenant19889/15/13 12:03 pm
     Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideCINCLesotho9/15/13 12:07 pm
           Loftus, paging Dr.Loftus *NM*Revenant19889/15/13 1:31 pm
                 Re: Loftus, paging Dr.LoftusStephen L. (SoundEffect)9/15/13 2:34 pm
           I'm confused...Leviathan9/15/13 5:43 pm
                 Re: I'm confused...Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/15/13 5:59 pm
                       Re: I'm confused...CINCLesotho9/15/13 7:00 pm
                             Re: I'm confused...Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/15/13 7:55 pm
                             Re: I'm confused...Leviathan9/15/13 8:09 pm
                                   Re: I'm confused...CINCLesotho9/15/13 10:03 pm
     Wait...ZackDark9/15/13 1:41 pm
           Re: Wait...Quirel9/15/13 3:56 pm
                 Re: Wait...ZackDark9/15/13 4:40 pm
                       Re: Wait...Quirel9/16/13 12:13 pm
                             Re: Wait...ZackDark9/16/13 8:00 pm
                                   Re: Wait...Quirel9/16/13 9:45 pm
                                         Oh, I see. Agreed and agreed, mate. *NM*ZackDark9/16/13 10:38 pm
                                         So does this mean...gamerguy20029/16/13 10:41 pm
     Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideTDSpiral9/15/13 4:33 pm
           Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideStephen L. (SoundEffect)9/15/13 4:44 pm
           Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual Guidescarab9/15/13 6:44 pm
                 Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideQuirel9/15/13 7:21 pm
                       Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual Guidebryan newman9/16/13 12:38 am
                       Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual Guidescarab9/16/13 2:35 am
                             Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideLeviathan9/16/13 2:53 am
                                   Oh You!scarab9/16/13 3:41 am
                                         Re: You rang? *IMG*Hyokin9/17/13 10:40 am
                                               Re: You rang? *IMG*ZackDark9/17/13 11:56 am
                                               I was looking for thatscarab9/17/13 12:30 pm
                                                     Quick jaunt to DBO: is that you?scarab9/17/13 12:33 pm
                                                           Yes. To both questions. ::evil face:: *NM*ZackDark9/17/13 2:52 pm
                                                           Re: Yes, it's me.Hyokin9/17/13 3:12 pm
                 Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideTDSpiral9/15/13 8:04 pm
                       Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideGrizzlei9/15/13 8:08 pm
                             Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-ReptilesZohak9/16/13 2:43 am
                                   Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-Reptilesscarab9/16/13 5:25 am
                                         Ooooh, but what if they did?ZackDark9/16/13 9:48 am
                                               I'd rather be a Dinosaur than a Forerunnerscarab9/16/13 12:40 pm
                                         Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-ReptilesDervish9/16/13 12:22 pm
                                               Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-ReptilesQuirel9/16/13 12:30 pm
                                                     Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-ReptilesDervish9/16/13 12:48 pm
                                                           Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-Reptilesscarab9/16/13 12:54 pm
                                                                 Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-ReptilesDervish9/16/13 1:02 pm
                                               Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-Reptilesscarab9/16/13 12:49 pm
                                                     Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-ReptilesDervish9/16/13 1:12 pm
                                         Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-ReptilesQuirel9/16/13 12:24 pm
                                               Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-Reptilesscarab9/16/13 12:37 pm
                                                     Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-ReptilesQuirel9/16/13 12:49 pm
                                                           Re:Kig yar could be like Sauropsid Or Ml-Reptilesscarab9/16/13 1:03 pm
                                         More on evolution and comparative anatomy.Gravemind9/16/13 5:14 pm
                                               Re: More on evolution and comparative anatomy.Gravemind9/16/13 5:30 pm
                                               Re: More on evolution and comparative anatomy.Quirel9/16/13 8:58 pm
                                                     Re: More on evolution and comparative anatomy.Gravemind9/16/13 9:22 pm
                                               Minor correction and addition.Gravemind9/16/13 9:53 pm
     Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual Guideserpx9/15/13 4:41 pm
     Re: Story info in H4 Essential Visual GuideApollo9/16/13 3:35 am
     So I bought the book...Dervish9/16/13 3:22 pm
           Re: So I bought the book...Grizzlei9/16/13 6:16 pm
                 Re: So I bought the book...Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/16/13 8:14 pm
                       Re: So I bought the book...Grizzlei9/16/13 8:20 pm
                             Re: So I bought the book...Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/16/13 8:34 pm
                                   You're too humble *GIF*Grizzlei9/16/13 9:13 pm
                                         Re: You're too humble *GIF*Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/16/13 10:23 pm
                                               Re: You're too humble *GIF*Grizzlei9/16/13 10:43 pm
                                                     Re: You're too humble *GIF*Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/16/13 10:51 pm
                                                           Re: You're too humble *GIF*Grizzlei9/16/13 11:15 pm
                                                           But they're the same ship…Ragashingo9/16/13 11:38 pm
                                                                 Re: But they're the same ship…Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/17/13 6:46 am
                                                                       Re: But they're the same ship…Ragashingo9/17/13 8:33 am
                                                                             Re: But they're the same ship…Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/17/13 9:38 am
                                                                                   Re: But they're the same ship…Revenant19889/17/13 11:19 am
                                                                                         Re: But they're the same ship…Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/17/13 11:47 am
                                                                                               HBO: We never shaw Loftus' whole work :( *NM*ZackDark9/17/13 11:55 am
                                                                                                     Re: HBO: We never shaw Loftus' whole work :(Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/17/13 12:23 pm
                                                                                               Re: But they're the same ship…Revenant19889/17/13 12:27 pm
                                                                                                     Re: But they're the same ship…Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/17/13 12:56 pm
                                                                                                           Re: But they're the same ship…Revenant19889/17/13 1:09 pm
                                                                                                                 Re: But they're the same ship…Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/17/13 2:39 pm
                                                                                                     This is the bestest post ever...Grizzlei9/17/13 3:19 pm
                                                                                         It's funny...Leviathan9/17/13 1:32 pm
                                                                                               Re: It's funny...Ragashingo9/17/13 2:12 pm
                                                                                   Re: But they're the same ship…Ragashingo9/17/13 6:47 pm
                                                                                         Re: But they're the same ship…Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/17/13 9:30 pm
                                                                                               Fantastic work^Leviathan9/17/13 11:04 pm
                                                                                                     And my actual opinion on the subject.Leviathan9/17/13 11:10 pm
                                                                                                           Re: And my actual opinion on the subject.Ragashingo9/17/13 11:55 pm
                                                                                                     There has never been a post more worthy of a THIS *NM*ZackDark9/18/13 8:52 pm
                                                                                               Re: But they're the same ship…FyreWulff9/18/13 12:57 pm
                                                                                                     What?Leviathan9/18/13 3:14 pm
                                                                                                     Re: But they're the same ship…Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/18/13 5:06 pm
                                                                                               Those drawings are nice. ;) *NM*Ragashingo9/18/13 8:54 pm
                                                                                                     Re: Those drawings are nice. ;)Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/18/13 10:38 pm
                                                                                                           Re: Those drawings are nice. ;)serpx9/18/13 11:26 pm
                                                                                                           Re: Those drawings are nice. ;)Ragashingo9/19/13 12:55 am
                                                                                                                 Re: Those drawings are nice. ;)Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/19/13 3:09 pm
                                                                                                                       Re: Those drawings are nice. ;)Ragashingo9/19/13 4:27 pm
                                                                                                                             Re: Those drawings are nice. ;)Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/19/13 4:40 pm
                                                                                                                                   Re: Those drawings are nice. ;)Ragashingo9/19/13 5:49 pm
                                                                                                                                         Re: Those drawings are nice. ;)Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/19/13 5:57 pm
                                                                                                                       Wait...ZackDark9/19/13 9:16 pm
                                                                                                                             Re: Wait...Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/19/13 9:30 pm
                                                                                                                                   Re: Wait...ZackDark9/19/13 9:59 pm
                                                                                                                                         Re: Wait...Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/19/13 10:35 pm
                                                                                                                                               Re: Wait...ZackDark9/19/13 11:22 pm
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Wait...Stephen L. (SoundEffect)9/20/13 6:29 am
                                                                                                                                                           O.OZackDark9/20/13 10:34 am
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: O.OStephen L. (SoundEffect)9/20/13 2:07 pm
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: O.OStephen L. (SoundEffect)9/20/13 2:42 pm

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