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Re: I am minority. (pt 2)
By:Revenant1988
Date: 8/12/13 9:37 am
In Response To: Re: I am minority. (Avateur)

: So then the question becomes, is it the content? Do people just not care? Has
: 343 basically revealed and spelled out and answered all of the mysteries
: of the Halo universe (give or take) to the point that speculation is
: practically useless? Or do people really just not care or like it anymore?
: Or has 343 "lost" the community? Or has the community "lost
: 343" somehow? Maybe all of the above? Some of the above? Lots of
: interesting things.

It's not lost, its changing. Shedding skin, dead weight, whatever you want to call it. Some will stay and some will go. It's nature.

: Presumptuous. Reach, a BUNGIE game, got ripped up. Reach.isnotcanon.net. Mega
: threads practically weekly utterly destroying the story via critical
: analysis. Threads destroying the gameplay. This and that. That and this. I
: feel like the tensions and hostilities during Reach were WAY worse than
: this period post-H4 launch. Constant strife.

Well, most of that strife here did come from only a few specific people. I can understand 343 wanting to make 'their' universe. You don't want to be in your predecessors shadow any longer than is necessary. If Bungie wanted to change their story a bit as sort of a 'last hurrah' so what?

My head canon trumps their canon any day.

: Oh. Well. Sure, I guess. That's sort of narrow, but I get your point. So
: someone who's been around since, say, 2003 isn't as valid as someone from
: 1999? Even if they're still around? It's a few years removed, and when the
: community maybe really boomed big with H2's impending launch and Xbox Live
: and whatnot.

It's not that its more or less valid, its that in terms of HBOs many many changes, the only folks who can really say what its been like since the beginning have to have BEEN here since the beginning. Yeah HBO is quiet now, but I've seen multiple times from Claude that its normal, and people freaking out about it is normal. It ramps up, it slows down. It gets heated, it gets cold. There are many environmental factors to consider for this specific eco system, and I agree for the most part with Cody's opinion in this tread.

Personally, I'll never be able to play Halo 4 (or any game going forward) the way that I did Combat Evolved and Halo 2. I'll never be 14 with infinite free time again.

: Nah, they just found different dudebro games. :P

And I won't miss them if they stay there.

: Does it matter if he says H2? It still predates H4 and still shows a
: relatively interesting drop off on peoples' perceptions of Bungie's Halo
: games post-H2 or even H3.

Yes. I don't know schooly but I'd bet that during that time he was probably in college and had lots of time to play in a unique environment with other social factors.

For my Cousin, that was similar to Goldeneye in a dorm.

Am I making sense with this? It has to do with a certain combination of free time, youth, and social factors. Those have likely changed for many people in our demographic.

Just like Megadeth will never produce another Rust In Peace, many of us will never produce that (seemingly) endless amount of free time to a game again.

As an individual, that's why I can't quantify and compare Halo 4 success/failure with any other Halo title. I can only say that they are different and there are things I like/dislike about each title.

: Which is still a very valid answer. For all we know, H5 will be the golden
: age! It was a loaded question to begin with, though, but I get why you
: were posing it and the point you're making.

: I seriously agree with this. Nostalgia definitely has that blinding quality
: to it. It's a point of comparison. How else can you really judge H4? I
: personally take a different approach to judging the game. The story is
: easy to analyze critically. I don't need to compare it to any other Halo
: game (though doing so really helps put it into perspective) to cut the
: story to pieces. It really isn't well written. The gameplay is highly
: repetitive (and if we do want to look back and compare, I feel like it
: does so many things that H3 did. And by that I mean, they were terrible in
: H3, and they're terrible in H4). They're terrible in general as far as I'm
: concerned. I can look at H4 as a stand alone and honestly say that it's
: filled with problems. I can point to a never ending supply of TUs and
: patches within the first six months to back my assessment that the game
: was incredibly busted. It's still all my opinion, but holy cow. And by
: comparison, well, H2 was pretty freaking busted, too. Why look back to the
: past to compare when it's clear that in its own right, H4 got mad issues.

: Even Palmer?! Yes, making a joke. :P

Hey, I was pleasantly surprised with Spartan Assault. If I had put on Palmer blinders I would have missed out on some fun. I still think she's a wanker.

: I don't feel they're better served on their own forums. Have you been to
: those forums? I've never been a fan of B.net's forums, but I'd choose them
: 99 out of 100 times over Waypoint's.

If you see what waypoint is now, know that it was like that in the Halo 2/3 days on B.net.

B.net got so bad that it drove me to posting here after lurking long enough.

B.net will likely have to deal with those problems again when Destiny comes out.

: I doubt that. I bet they have a marketing person or something who reads this
: stuff and analyzes it and finds trends and so on and so forth. It's
: amazing what large companies do to gauge populations and opinions,
: especially the negative. We just never hear it or see it.

Yes, but I still cite my AR prop example. I did not post it anywhere but here and it made its way there. I have 100% NO posts or involvement on Waypoint. I felt pretty humbled when it was posted to their blog. It means that someone there saw it.

: They have magically changed. 343 has released close to something like three
: trillion patches to fix things wrong in their game. They weapon tune even
: when not everything needs tuning. You just said you don't come here to
: read stuff like this, yet here you are reading it and being perplexed by
: it. These things do change, the game is changing, and some of the changes
: are just as mind boggling as some of their original decisions with this
: game.

Let's not drift into this territory. I will only say that while you may not be happy with the content of the tweaks they introduce, the FREQUENCY should not be overly criticized. There are plenty of games out there that could desperately use a TU or patch that don't get them. 343 is, for all arguments, involved with their online community in this regard. I remember it taking what felt like eons for Bungie to patch things like exploits and cheaters in Halo 3. Remember dat Mauler?

: Also, it doesn't cause my grief. I see things that are in dire need of
: fixing. A lot of those things have had fixes! Not all of those fixes
: should have happened, or should have happened differently.

: If the other doesn't, well, all of those patches and tunings and everything
: sure seem to say otherwise. H5 could potentially be made into something
: great. Full circle here. Golden age, am I right? Imagine if 343 takes all
: of this feedback and somehow releases the perfect Halo game. EVERYONE WINS
: at that point! 343, fans, Halo, Microsoft, Master Chief, Food Nipple
: Grunt.

: Maybe that is the primary reason, but also hope that maybe Halo won't suck as
: much in the future. Since many of us aren't burnt out on Halo and would
: love for Halo to not suck. Obviously my own opinion regarding suckage.

: I remember that Bungie didn't want the "Combat Evolved" tagline and
: Microsoft forced it on them.

Dunno about that. Either way, it DID evolve console FPSs.

: I don't think that's what happened.

: That's a bold statement. I wouldn't have had an issue with the statement
: until you designated yourself someone worthy to decide what makes someone
: "balanced" on a fan forum where emotions can run high in support
: of and against certain decisions that are made regarding the thing people
: are fans of.

I don't think that I was trying to elevate myself or anything, but I do strive to read other peoples posts from their perspectives. I find myself playing Devil's advocate in a many areas that I interact with people (not just HBO).

Its just hard to sit back and watch someone spew the same thing over and over from one perspective. It's OK to dislike something, adamantly even. But for me, I have to understand both sides (or more) to an issue.

: Ironic considering you're continuing the dance. :P

That was my point- that I'm just as guilty.

: I just use the Xbox Live population chart, watching H4 slowly drop every time
: a new one comes out, and I also use H4's matchmaking population itself.
: That doesn't tell me about the community, but the player population is
: pretty hilarious.

See, and I don't know why people say things like that. What is so hilarious about it? I perceive it as quality over quantity.

I know what you're gonna say- Logically, we should WANT as large a population possible playing a game. That benefits me, the player in giving me a larger pool of people to play with etc and it benefits the developer and all those other powers that be with more money.

But you see, I could give a crap about the actual population size as long as I can still find qualtiy matches.

I'll use Halo Wars as my example, as its still the only thing I really play in my (admittedly limited) gaming time.

Halo Wars population (according to what I see, in game) hovers on average at about 5,000 players, world wide. It's been like this for at least a year. That is pretty pathetic in terms of volume. Or is it?

I guess that depends on your perspective.

For me, the quality of games I get now are actually BETTER than they were 3 years ago! I started to wonder why, and I think it has to do with the type of players that I encounter. They fall into 3 main groups:

Player A : Someone who picked up Halo Wars at a bargain bin and is testing it out

Player B : Someone who is chasing the General rank Achievement

Player C : Someone who plays for enjoyment and strategy. They can't rank any higher, yet they still play.

I run into lots of players in the 'C' group and because of it the games I typically play are much more enjoyable than they were when the population was way bigger years ago. Everything number wise would tell you that Halo Wars is dying and that hardly anyone plays it yet I have no problems getting matches and while I do run into my fair share of quitters (usually due to getting paired with a low rank partner) the majority of matches are great. Even when I lose.

To circle back: What I'm saying is maybe Halo 4's population is kinda like that. I can only speculate as I have not played it in some time, but I have a hard time thinking there are people playing it who don't enjoy it. Sure, the number may not be as large as it once was (Halo is pretty old at this point in terms of gaming, and has plenty of competition) but that doesn't mean its a totally **bad thing.

That's what I thought when I first read Schooly's post, is that population is not some be all end all identifier to how well a game is doing. It ebbs and flows. If we based a games merit solely on its MP population that would be sad. Sure CoD #whatevertheiruptonow may have a big ass number of people playing it but they are all people I don't want to play with. It's a game that I could argue is TOO easily accessible. Too average. Too run of the mill. It's popular because its bland. I want Halo to continue to be unique. If that means it sells less and the population is 20,000 players and not 20,000,000 I'll still be able to sleep at night.

343's Halo needs to be different and risky or it will fade into the mediocrity that is far to common in mass marketed games these days.

(**Yeah, maybe bad for Microsoft's wallet, but to be fair they already made their money when the game was purchased. And I also realize that if they ticked off enough people that might keep people from buying Halo 5. But to be honest, I think people 'not buying Halo 5' will have more to do with the XBONE and how that thing goes than 343.... ya know, if it happens.)


Messages In This Thread

Halo 4, fans, and 343Schooly D8/9/13 2:27 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Pkmnrulz2408/9/13 5:01 am
           Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343bluerunner8/9/13 8:00 am
                 Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Pkmnrulz2408/9/13 10:19 am
                       Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Captain Spark8/9/13 10:42 am
     $10 to the charity of your choicekidtsunami8/9/13 5:31 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343ZaneZavin8/9/13 8:22 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Kal8/9/13 9:36 am
           Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Pkmnrulz2408/9/13 10:31 am
                 Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Kal8/9/13 10:57 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Ragashingo8/9/13 9:55 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343The Lionheart8/9/13 9:57 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343DEEP NNN8/9/13 10:22 am
     It's no secret...padraig088/9/13 10:50 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343TDSpiral8/9/13 12:16 pm
     Positive comments insideUrban Reflex8/9/13 1:59 pm
           Re: Positive comments insidethebruce08/9/13 2:26 pm
                 Re: Positive comments insideAvateur8/10/13 12:10 am
                       Re: Positive comments insidethebruce08/12/13 10:46 am
           Re: Positive comments insideDEEP NNN8/9/13 2:56 pm
                 Re: Positive comments insidestabbim8/9/13 8:53 pm
                 Re: Positive comments insidethebruce08/12/13 10:49 am
     Speaking as a fan of Halo 4...Dervish8/9/13 2:30 pm
           Re: Speaking as a fan of Halo 4...thebruce08/12/13 10:58 am
                 Re: And by David I mean...thebruce08/12/13 11:25 am
     I am minority.Revenant19888/9/13 5:05 pm
           here here *NM*davidfuchs8/9/13 7:00 pm
           Re: I am minority.Schooly D8/9/13 7:06 pm
                 Re: I am minority.Revenant19888/9/13 7:32 pm
                       Re: I am minority.Avateur8/10/13 12:48 am
                             Re: I am minority.Revenant19888/12/13 8:26 am
           Re: I am minority.Avateur8/10/13 12:45 am
                 Re: I am minority. (pt 2)Revenant19888/12/13 9:37 am
                       Re: I am minority. (pt 2)Quirel8/12/13 8:25 pm
                       Re: I am minority. (pt 2)Avateur8/12/13 9:35 pm
           I definitely stay for the peoplepadraig088/12/13 10:26 am
                 Group hug time!LostSpartan9878/12/13 8:49 pm
           Re: I am minority.Kermit8/12/13 1:03 pm
                 Re: I am minority.Revenant19888/12/13 1:24 pm
                       Re: I am minority.Stephen L. (SoundEffect)8/12/13 2:57 pm
                 Re: I am minority.Miguel Chavez8/13/13 12:00 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Cody Miller8/9/13 7:34 pm
           Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Kermit8/13/13 11:54 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343nillapuddin8/9/13 8:26 pm
           Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Quirel8/9/13 9:09 pm
                 Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343nillapuddin8/9/13 9:39 pm
                       Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Quirel8/10/13 12:30 am
                             Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343nillapuddin8/10/13 4:45 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343stabbim8/9/13 9:25 pm
     My thoughts...bryan newman8/9/13 11:08 pm
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Avateur8/10/13 12:15 am
     Re: Halo 4, fans, and 343Azo 'Galvat8/10/13 1:07 am
     A challenge to the lurkers:Quirel8/10/13 2:27 am
           Re: A challenge to the lurkers:Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)8/10/13 5:55 am
           Re: A challenge to the lurkers (and 343)thebruce08/12/13 11:41 am
     Figured it outCody Miller8/12/13 3:01 pm
           Re: Figured it outDHalo8/12/13 3:02 pm
           Johnson!scarab8/12/13 3:18 pm
                 Firefight and Orbital don't countscarab8/12/13 3:30 pm
           Elite plasma rifles! *NM*scarab8/12/13 3:19 pm
                 Reach - DOH! *NM*scarab8/12/13 3:20 pm
           Re: Figured it outCaptain Spark8/12/13 3:22 pm
           Re: Figured it outrhubarb8/12/13 4:05 pm
                 'What could have been...'rhubarb8/12/13 5:46 pm

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