Halo.Bungie.Org Forum http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl Latest posts from the Halo.Bungie.Org Forum Intellectual Copyright halo.bungie.org, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 halo@bungie.org Halo.Bungie.Org Forum http://halo.bungie.org/images/haloblue.small.gif http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219064 Re: The end of haloreach.isnotcanon.net <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=quirel" target="_blank">Quirel</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/24/24 1:33 am</span><BR>: "Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to<BR>: their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a 'Star Trek' fan and<BR>: open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'."<P>: -Leonard Nimoy, Reuters May 5, 2009<P>: Almost 15 years ago, haloreach.isnotcanon.net was created. Designed to poke<BR>: fun at Bungie's storytelling choices, it kind of spiraled into something<BR>: else. And yes. At the time, we were upset Bungie chose to 'ignore' aspects<BR>: of Fall of Reach.<P>: As time goes on, I care less an less about the tiny details like this.<BR>: Especially with the Halo show, I see how a rigid adherence to 'canon'<BR>: prevents a lot of people from giving the show a chance to simply be what<BR>: it is. Life's better when you look at something on its own terms - when<BR>: you let it be its own thing and you evaluate it for what it is, not what<BR>: you want it to be.<P>What if what it is, is a steaming pile of dogshit? And yet it carries the Halo name?<P>See, the TV show isn't canon. Canon is the running tally of events and facts that make up a continuing story. Some are hard, like dates, others are softer and more open to interpretation, like characterization. But unless you're writing complete nonsense like Ren & Stimpy, canon helps you tell a better story. Sure, sometimes you need to retcon what came before because plans change or you really weren't thinking things through when you wrote something earlier. But often retconing is the easy way out.<P>But that's beside the point, because the TV show isn't canon. The TV show is an <i>adaptation</i>. Alternate-timelines nonsense aside, the TV show is an adaptation of the games and books much in the same way that Jurassic Park and Dune and Lord of the Rings were adaptations of their books. Someone is taking the story structure and themes and names from one medium and recreating them in another medium. When this is done, it is perfectly possible to compare the two and decide which one did the better job in execution. Sometimes an adaptation is better than the original. Believe it or not, The Prestige was based on a book, and it is a masterclass in extracting two or three decent plotlines from a meandering mess of a novel.<P>Compared to the books and the games, the Halo TV show is drawn in fingerpaint.<P>It's not just that they changed things. I've seen scripts for adapting the first game to a movie that took liberties with dialogue and whole levels, and the end product was a good story. The Halo TV show changed things, and the changes sucked.<P>Long story short, there's this meme that sums up the state of modern adaptations perfectly, but I can't be arsed to hunt it down. Some stick-figure is reading a book labeled <font color=Blue>Blue</font> and enjoying it. The guy clearly loves <font color=Blue>Blue</font>. He's happy to hear that <font color=Blue>Blue</font> is getting adapted to the big screen, so he buys a ticket and plops into his seat with a big ol' bucket of popcorn.<P>Only to be dismayed as <font color=Red><b>BLUE</B></font> starts playing.<P>Long ago, I got tired of being that guy.<BR><a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219064#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Quirel http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219064 Wed, 24 Apr 2024 05:33:25 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219063 Tower plays *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=rockslider" target="_blank">Rockslider</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/22/24 1:20 pm</span><BR>The action with the rear mob heads indoors now. Three plays to enjoy, in <a href="http://badcyborg.net/Halo/Movies/BCM481.html">BCM481</a>.<P><em>Note: as well as being able to watch and download my movies <a href="https://files.bungie.org/bad_cyborg/">at HBO</a>, they're also on my <a href="https://odysee.com/@Rockslider:1?view=content">Odysee channel</a>.</em><BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.badcyborg.net" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">Bad Cyborg</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219063#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Rockslider http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219063 Mon, 22 Apr 2024 17:20:30 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219062 Re: Arby & Chief Podcast <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=joe+duplessie++snipe+316+" target="_blank">Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/22/24 7:42 am</span><BR>Wow welcome back it's been like 100,000 years.<P>: Hopefully the included link sends you to YouTube creator Master Cheeks and<BR>: the first of their podcasts.<P>No AI so far has been able to replicate Arbiter very well.<P><a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219062#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219062 Mon, 22 Apr 2024 11:42:44 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219061 Re: A pillar of inconsistency <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=tns22" target="_blank">TNS22</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/21/24 2:02 pm</span><BR>If the point was 'Bungie hated Nylund', their continued working with him pokes quite the hole in that. I don't think Nylund would be dishonest in how he feels about his work.<BR><a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219061#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> TNS22 http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219061 Sun, 21 Apr 2024 18:02:10 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219060 Arby & Chief Podcast <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=lawnmower172" target="_blank">Lawnmower172</a> <span style="margin-left: 1em; font-weight: normal; font-size: 80%;">&lt;<a href="mailto:Martinwegner@gmail.com?subject=Arby & Chief Podcast">Martinwegner@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span></span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/21/24 11:37 am</span><BR>Hopefully the included link sends you to YouTube creator Master Cheeks and the first of their podcasts.<BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHvMJ6M_ky0" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">Arby &amp; Chief podcast</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219060#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Lawnmower172 http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219060 Sun, 21 Apr 2024 15:37:33 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219059 Re: Vehicle plays *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=rockslider" target="_blank">Rockslider</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/20/24 5:18 pm</span><BR>: With the exception of the Banshee, I rarely use the Ghost in Halo CE. It's<BR>: fun to see it used like I used to do in my early days playing this game.<BR>: Good job blasting the Covies.<P>Thanks. I tend not to use the Ghost much in standard play either, but it's quite a blast when you've got a ton of enemies like this.<BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.badcyborg.net" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">Bad Cyborg</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219059#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Rockslider http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219059 Sat, 20 Apr 2024 21:18:15 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219058 Door mischief *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=rockslider" target="_blank">Rockslider</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/20/24 5:16 pm</span><BR>In my latest escapade with the rear mob I get into some sneaky cyborg mischief at the nearby tower door. See <a href="http://badcyborg.net/Halo/Movies/BCM480.html">BCM480</a>.<P><em>Note: as well as being able to watch and download my movies <a href="https://files.bungie.org/bad_cyborg/">at HBO</a>, they're also on my <a href="https://odysee.com/@Rockslider:1?view=content">Odysee channel</a>.</em><BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.badcyborg.net" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">Bad Cyborg</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219058#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Rockslider http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219058 Sat, 20 Apr 2024 21:16:29 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219057 Re: Vehicle plays *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=captain+spark" target="_blank">Captain Spark</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/19/24 10:35 pm</span><BR>: Comfy rides beckon, as I tackle the rear mob with Banshee and Ghost in<BR>: free-roaming fashion. Check out BCM479 .<P>: Note: as well as being able to watch and download my movies at HBO ,<BR>: they're also on my Odysee channel .<P>With the exception of the Banshee, I rarely use the Ghost in Halo CE. It's fun to see it used like I used to do in my early days playing this game. Good job blasting the Covies.<BR><a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219057#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Captain Spark http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219057 Sat, 20 Apr 2024 02:35:13 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219056 Vehicle plays *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=rockslider" target="_blank">Rockslider</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/19/24 11:04 am</span><BR>Comfy rides beckon, as I tackle the rear mob with Banshee and Ghost in free-roaming fashion. Check out <a href="http://badcyborg.net/Halo/Movies/BCM479.html">BCM479</a>.<P><em>Note: as well as being able to watch and download my movies <a href="https://files.bungie.org/bad_cyborg/">at HBO</a>, they're also on my <a href="https://odysee.com/@Rockslider:1?view=content">Odysee channel</a>.</em><BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.badcyborg.net" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">Bad Cyborg</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219056#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Rockslider http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219056 Fri, 19 Apr 2024 15:04:09 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219055 Re: A pillar of inconsistency <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=stephen+l.++soundeffect+" target="_blank">Stephen L. (SoundEffect)</a> <span style="margin-left: 1em; font-weight: normal; font-size: 80%;">&lt;<a href="mailto:soundeffect@hotmail.com?subject=Re: A pillar of inconsistency">soundeffect@hotmail.com</a>&gt;</span></span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/19/24 7:25 am</span><BR>: That they got the author back in to try and backfill the explanations for<BR>: retconning his work isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. That Nylund gets<BR>: a paycheck and doesn't shit-talk employers also doesn't really say much<BR>: about his relationship with Bungie.<P>Acknowledging that there were a few tight spots in the fiction between the Reach novel and the Reach game, I also worked with Jeremy Patenaude when Loot Crate was new (mid–late 2011) on reviews and minor edits to the 11th Hour Reports to try and fill in or help justify some of the inconsistencies. It was done mostly to my satisfaction. I was initially against the Reach game's interpretation (but some of that was my mind state having lost close family a week before the game launched) but I've now come to terms with the novel's and game's events/timeline.<BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="https://halo.bungie.org/misc/theworkofstephenloftus.html" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">My Halo Articles!</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219055#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Stephen L. (SoundEffect) http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219055 Fri, 19 Apr 2024 11:25:34 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219054 Re: A pillar of inconsistency <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=davidfuchs" target="_blank">davidfuchs</a> <span style="margin-left: 1em; font-weight: normal; font-size: 80%;">&lt;<a href="mailto:davelikesdinos@gmail.com?subject=Re: A pillar of inconsistency">davelikesdinos@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span></span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/18/24 4:52 pm</span><BR>: I agree with the notion that Reach's story could've been condensed to fit<BR>: better, timeline wise. But I don't agree with two suggested executions.<P>: And, if the point is about defending Nylund, then I'm pointing out Halsey's<BR>: Journal. Bungie clearly wasn't being so hostile to Nylund during Reach dev<BR>: if they worked with him on it. Nylund himself called it his best work on<BR>: the franchise, and it being ignored is the zenith of the problem,<BR>: especially if it's about enshrining the man. The point was 'the average<BR>: fan won't read it', which is true, but the average fan wasn't reading the<BR>: novels anyway. Both are in the deeper fiction category.<P>: I'm on their side, and can personally forgive the issues, but this site was<BR>: meant to be definitive, and HRINC's problems outweighed it's qualities.<P>That they got the author back in to try and backfill the explanations for retconning his work isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. That Nylund gets a paycheck and doesn't shit-talk employers also doesn't really say much about his relationship with Bungie.<BR><a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219054#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> davidfuchs http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219054 Thu, 18 Apr 2024 20:52:27 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219053 Re: A pillar of inconsistency <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=tns22" target="_blank">TNS22</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/17/24 6:08 pm</span><BR>I agree with the notion that Reach's story could've been condensed to fit better, timeline wise. But I don't agree with two suggested executions.<P>And, if the point is about defending Nylund, then I'm pointing out Halsey's Journal. Bungie clearly wasn't being so hostile to Nylund during Reach dev if they worked with him on it. Nylund himself called it his best work on the franchise, and it being ignored is the zenith of the problem, especially if it's about enshrining the man. The point was 'the average fan won't read it', which is true, but the average fan wasn't reading the novels anyway. Both are in the deeper fiction category.<P>I'm on their side, and can personally forgive the issues, but this site was meant to be definitive, and HRINC's problems outweighed it's qualities.<BR><a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219053#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> TNS22 http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219053 Wed, 17 Apr 2024 22:08:57 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219052 Re: Pipe perch fun *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=rockslider" target="_blank">Rockslider</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/17/24 12:47 pm</span><BR>: Great stuff. I liked how you dropped down from the pipe and landed on the<BR>: Hunter.<P>Thanks. Good job the Hunter didn't move eh?<BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.badcyborg.net" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">Bad Cyborg</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219052#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Rockslider http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219052 Wed, 17 Apr 2024 16:47:03 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219051 Re: Pipe perch fun *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=captain+spark" target="_blank">Captain Spark</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/17/24 11:54 am</span><BR>: In BCM478 I explore the offensive use of a novel perching area some way<BR>: above the door, and it provides good sport. Especially when I take a<BR>: rocket launcher with me!<P>: Note: as well as being able to watch and download my movies at HBO ,<BR>: they're also on my Odysee channel .<P>Great stuff. I liked how you dropped down from the pipe and landed on the Hunter.<BR><a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219051#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Captain Spark http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219051 Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:54:11 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219050 Pipe perch fun *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=rockslider" target="_blank">Rockslider</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/17/24 9:49 am</span><BR>In <a href="http://badcyborg.net/Halo/Movies/BCM478.html">BCM478</a> I explore the offensive use of a novel perching area some way above the door, and it provides good sport. Especially when I take a rocket launcher with me!<P><em>Note: as well as being able to watch and download my movies <a href="https://files.bungie.org/bad_cyborg/">at HBO</a>, they're also on my <a href="https://odysee.com/@Rockslider:1?view=content">Odysee channel</a>.</em><BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.badcyborg.net" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">Bad Cyborg</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219050#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Rockslider http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219050 Wed, 17 Apr 2024 13:49:09 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219049 Another five plays *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=rockslider" target="_blank">Rockslider</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/15/24 5:12 pm</span><BR>In <a href="http://badcyborg.net/Halo/Movies/BCM477.html">BCM477</a> there are five more plays, covering some more battle plans you can enjoy, three of them a bit further afield than last time.<P><em>Note: as well as being able to watch and download my movies <a href="https://files.bungie.org/bad_cyborg/">at HBO</a>, they're also on my <a href="https://odysee.com/@Rockslider:1?view=content">Odysee channel</a>.</em><BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.badcyborg.net" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">Bad Cyborg</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219049#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Rockslider http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219049 Mon, 15 Apr 2024 21:12:58 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219048 Re: The end of haloreach.isnotcanon.net <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=stephen+l.++soundeffect+" target="_blank">Stephen L. (SoundEffect)</a> <span style="margin-left: 1em; font-weight: normal; font-size: 80%;">&lt;<a href="mailto:soundeffect@hotmail.com?subject=Re: The end of haloreach.isnotcanon.net">soundeffect@hotmail.com</a>&gt;</span></span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/15/24 10:00 am</span><BR>: I think there's very different fans, some really just like the universe and<BR>: the stories within it, others like the mechanics of it. And there's<BR>: nothing wrong with either! I wouldn't say retcons aren't sometimes<BR>: necessary, or that avoiding contradictions can't ultimately become a<BR>: technical debt issue with sprawling franchises, but there is something to<BR>: be said for expecting a certain level of care from the people creating a<BR>: universe. Part of what makes them appealing is the level of<BR>: "order" you can create in a rich imagined world that doesn't<BR>: exist in the "real" one.<P>: (Also no way Star Trek fans hate Star Trek the most. Star Wars fans, having<BR>: historically had far less media to enjoy, have always been worse. :P )<P>I find it ultimately comes down to knowledge per subject. If you have a passing familiarity of the franchise like "I've seen each episode once", then there are numerous nuances you would not remember from episodes hundreds of back. It won't spoil your enjoyment of the new because you're unaware of the inconsistency.<P>But if you've watched or even taken notes on multiple viewings of each then you build up a base of knowledge that even minor consistency violations become very noticeable.<P>But the continuation of a narrative relies on internal consistency. It can be a pain to stick to what's been established but in the end it will pay off.<P>Many modern showrunners seem to think that the 'baggage' of previous episodes/series paints them into a corner but it would be far better off if they acknowledged what came before and creatively built on it rather than just do their own thing while coopting the property or franchise because recognition alone will bring in the $$.<P>And while many in the biz measure success by box office $$, the ultimate measure is if you created great art with your story/show, then it will have the longevity that the quick/easy way will not.<BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="https://halo.bungie.org/misc/theworkofstephenloftus.html" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">My Halo Articles!</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219048#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Stephen L. (SoundEffect) http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219048 Mon, 15 Apr 2024 14:00:38 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219047 Re: A pillar of inconsistency <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=davidfuchs" target="_blank">davidfuchs</a> <span style="margin-left: 1em; font-weight: normal; font-size: 80%;">&lt;<a href="mailto:davelikesdinos@gmail.com?subject=Re: A pillar of inconsistency">davelikesdinos@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span></span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/15/24 8:51 am</span><BR>: It's funny, because I have disagreed with much of the content on that site,<BR>: while at the same time recognizing the site's importance. But I do need to<BR>: say Halo: Reach was canon. That's just how it works.<P>: Some of the points made were honestly ridiculous. The site dedicated to<BR>: defending canon and The Fall of Reach, ignores canon and dismisses<BR>: Halsey's Journal, which was written by Nylund himself. 2/4 of the story<BR>: critiques were centered around Noble Six (one about them needing to 'grow<BR>: as a character', the other saying that they don't work as a self-insert),<BR>: which just feels absurd.<P>: I think the wider picture here is fairly clear. Halo: Reach's story<BR>: contradicts The Fall of Reach's depiction, which is beloved. This means<BR>: that no matter what, the game is already tainted. It's lack of the<BR>: super-solid character-driven story they were going for certainly isn't<BR>: helping the notion that the contradictions are worth it. All of this leads<BR>: to passionate critiques to air grievances—even if those critiques don't<BR>: entirely hold up.<P>: But I don't disagree with the main message. Bungie (and anyone else) should<BR>: be kept honest with their storytelling. Don't get me wrong; fair points<BR>: were raised. Personally, I enjoyed too much of Halo: Reach to say that I<BR>: would prefer it not to have been made, but it had problems. The characters<BR>: were overall pretty flat, and the stretching of Reach's fall to multiple<BR>: months doesn't come across as necessary.<P>: One thing that's fairly forgotten nowadays is that Bungie at large kept<BR>: Halo's fiction to a high level of cohesion. Contrary to this post, canon<BR>: should matter, and it did. The reason the site was made in the first place<BR>: is that Halo: Reach bucked that trend.<P>: I can only imagine why halo4.isnotcanon.net was never made, because Halo 4's<BR>: complete eclipsing of Halo: Reach's retcons definitely called for it. I<BR>: suppose, the sheer weight of them, along with the fact that it was pretty<BR>: clear nobody was listening, made the effort seem futile.<P>I think the main point HRINC made that I think throws the issues in stark relief is that if you change the timestamps and a few pieces of dialogue, almost all the issues are removed (leaving just the gymnastics of Cortana and Autumn at the end). The game theoretically broke canon to give you a richer character story but it fundamentally didn't do that (it also wanted to directly link Reach to 1, which is a classic "we're coming full circle!" strategy prequels do that is always, always a terrible idea.)<P>Some people are always going to be upset at retcons, but I can't blame people's reactions when it felt ultimately so unneeded. I think it's also a situation that feels worse even after all these years, now that the background of how hostile Bungie was to Nylund and how little they seemed to feel indebted to him for helping to create the world fans loved.<BR><a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219047#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> davidfuchs http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219047 Mon, 15 Apr 2024 12:51:39 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219046 Re: The end of haloreach.isnotcanon.net <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=davidfuchs" target="_blank">davidfuchs</a> <span style="margin-left: 1em; font-weight: normal; font-size: 80%;">&lt;<a href="mailto:davelikesdinos@gmail.com?subject=Re: The end of haloreach.isnotcanon.net">davelikesdinos@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span></span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/15/24 8:48 am</span><BR>: I very much disagree with Leonard Nimoy's quote. :)<P>I think there's very different fans, some really just like the universe and the stories within it, others like the mechanics of it. And there's nothing wrong with either! I wouldn't say retcons aren't sometimes necessary, or that avoiding contradictions can't ultimately become a technical debt issue with sprawling franchises, but there is something to be said for expecting a certain level of care from the people creating a universe. Part of what makes them appealing is the level of "order" you can create in a rich imagined world that doesn't exist in the "real" one.<P>(Also no way Star Trek fans hate Star Trek the most. Star Wars fans, having historically had far less media to enjoy, have always been worse. :P )<BR><a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219046#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> davidfuchs http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219046 Mon, 15 Apr 2024 12:48:37 GMT http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219045 Rear mob battles begin *VID* <span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>By:</strong> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?profile=rockslider" target="_blank">Rockslider</a> </span><br/><span style="font-size:1.2em"><strong>Date:</strong> 4/13/24 3:32 pm</span><BR>In <a href="http://badcyborg.net/Halo/Movies/BCM476.html">BCM476</a> I do five plays of the rear mob set-up, sampling each of their five immediate attack vectors.<P><em>Note: as well as being able to watch and download my movies <a href="https://files.bungie.org/bad_cyborg/">at HBO</a>, they're also on my <a href="https://odysee.com/@Rockslider:1?view=content">Odysee channel</a>.</em><BR><div style="border-top-width: 1px; padding: 2px 0; width: 510px; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.badcyborg.net" target="_blank" style="margin: 4px;">Bad Cyborg</a></div> <a href="http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219045#PostResponse" target="_blank">Reply to this post</a> Rockslider http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1219045 Sat, 13 Apr 2024 19:32:20 GMT